Have state school teachers faced redundancy for not working during lockdown?

[notevenat20]

I recently read

I think those of us who work in the private sector understand we are going to have to work during periods of self isolation whilst juggling family. It was the same during lockdown. We want to keep our jobs so we will have to provide the service.

This got me wondering, is this a pressure state school teachers feel too?

Certainly at DC’s school no educational provision was given for almost all of lockdown (there were 6 key worker children in the school, out of 420).

And then in my case I see the teachers who apparently are too busy to do any teaching lolling about in the local park in the day and boasting about their extended family bike rides.

How do you know they were too busy to teach? Did they tell you this? Could this have been over the Easter holidays that you saw them? (The Easter holidays when many teachers worked some days for free to care for Key Worker children).

@notevenat20

if you had a bad experience with your children’s’ school not providing work during lockdown you should have complained to the Head, Senior Leadership, the governors or the Local Education Authority. You issue would then have been addressed.

This is just not true and reflects the viewpoint of management in all walks of life.

If you write to the school you get a bland form reply. If you speak to them you learn that they view parents as continuous complainers who they need to be protected from. If you write to the chair of governors you learn she has been best friends with the head for decades and won't hear a word of criticism. If you write to the council you learn that they have passed all responsibility to the governors.

That is the real world.

Sounds like you spend a great deal of time complaining!

So your solution to all of that is to sack teachers

Well...a few thoughts.

First, people do get sacked all the time for not doing their jobs. I don't understand this idea that teaching should be the only job where you can't be sacked.

Second, I haven't suggested anyone should be sacked. My original question asked if state school teachers felt the same pressures as private school teachers.

Third, saying as you asked, I do think there should be some reckoning for the heads/SLT who presided over schools that let down so badly the children in their schools. Realistically this could be an apology on their behalf from the govt and a warning to those heads.

Sounds like you spend a great deal of time complaining!

Three letters in 7 years :)

teaching should be the only job where you can't be sacked.

Unionisation has dropped in the UK since Thatcher's days but it is not easy to sack anyone in any job where there are contracts and unions.

Is it easy to sack a doctor, a nurse, a social worker?

@FrippEnos yes I again take your point.

I’m probably naive about the name changing/agendas.

I have noticed an unpleasant tone on threads, honestly it feels like it’s antagonised at time’s. Salty just posted - expect a robust response from teachers, well parents are then robust back and it turns into a really unhelpful circle.

I really wish I wasn’t disappointed with our school, we’re engaged parents, my DH is a governor, we volunteer, fundraise etc
We engaged a tutor in the end - education is such a priority for us. I’m struggling with how we’ll view the school in future, I think we probably have to move them. I want my DC to be somewhere where the teachers knew they should and wanted to do more, rather than hide behind them curriculum was stopped’

. My original question asked if state school teachers felt the same pressures as private school teachers.

No, it didn't.

notevenat20

First, people do get sacked all the time for not doing their jobs. I don't understand this idea that teaching should be the only job where you can't be sacked.

But people don't get sacked for following instructions, and teachers can be sacked.

Second, I haven't suggested anyone should be sacked. My original question asked if state school teachers felt the same pressures as private school teachers.

You missed out that you think that state school teachers were not working and there is no mention of private school teachers in your first post.

Third, saying as you asked, I do think there should be some reckoning for the heads/SLT who presided over schools that let down so badly the children in their schools. Realistically this could be an apology on their behalf from the govt and a warning to those heads.

Heads and SLT took their lead from the government so it should be the government that apologises for the lack of guidance and provision not the schools.
And why the warning to those heads? they were following the governments instructions.

Yet again , I have to ask what you were doing while you saw these teachers lolling?

You didn't answer this last time.

What if I suggested you should have been at home working?

Your contempt reveals itself in the word lolling

If you write to the chair of governors you learn she has been best friends with the head for decades and won't hear a word of criticism. If you write to the council you learn that they have passed all responsibility to the governors.

OK @notevenat20, you've just proved you are making this up.

A CoG in that position would be ousted by the other Governors if she didn't have the common sense to refer the complaint to someone else. If the other governors didn't do that the local authority would intervene as a result of your complaint.
The Council have not passed all responsibilities to the governors, it doesn't work like that. They may have said that you need to exhaust the school's complaints procedure first , which is not the same thing.

This nonsense from you might serve to make you feel better by making other people feel bad but please bear in mind that the rubbish you write about Governors may be believed by other parents who are then disadvantaged by not knowing the truth.

How is teaching the ‘only job where you can’t be sacked’? Teachers can be sacked- and in the cut throat world of inner city academies, often are if there are concerns about their performance or professionalism. I personally can think of at least five English teachers I’ve worked with who have been let go. Teaching jobs aren’t the positions for life they were in the 1980’s- like every career your performance is managed and you have to prove your worth. But I’m sure the OP will ignore this as they do every post that doesn’t fit their agenda and can’t be easily unpicked.

A small aside - my DH upheld a parents complaint. The decision was not influenced by relationships. I think you have to hope that people behave with integrity.
Just for balance- I wouldn’t want to deal with some of the parents the teachers have to !

I’m out- off for a run in the sunshine.

If you write to the school you get a bland form reply. If you speak to them you learn that they view parents as continuous complainers who they need to be protected from. If you write to the chair of governors you learn she has been best friends with the head for decades and won't hear a word of criticism. If you write to the council you learn that they have passed all responsibility to the governors

That’s not true.

That is the real world

No, it isn’t.

@notevenat20

So your solution to all of that is to sack teachers

Well...a few thoughts.

First, people do get sacked all the time for not doing their jobs. I don't understand this idea that teaching should be the only job where you can't be sacked.

Second, I haven't suggested anyone should be sacked. My original question asked if state school teachers felt the same pressures as private school teachers.

Third, saying as you asked, I do think there should be some reckoning for the heads/SLT who presided over schools that let down so badly the children in their schools. Realistically this could be an apology on their behalf from the govt and a warning to those heads.

Errr.... you definitely said that teachers should be made redundant. You didn’t know the meaning of redundant, you meant sacked. Read back your title and first post.

I’m probably naive about the name changing/agendas.

Incredibly naive, pom. And yet you've been on enough threads to have seen the shit thrown at teachers over lockdown. I'm not sure if you were on any of the threads where @milesjuppismybitch was collating shitty teacher-bashing comments as they were made, forming a huge list over a couple of days.

This thread was started to bash teachers by a poster with form who is behaving incredibly goadily on it (if you can't see that, you need a drive to Barnard Castle). I'm not going to apologise or feel bad for treating it with the lack of respect it deserves, OR take any criticism from you that somehow I'm causing a problem that has been going on for months with a deliberate agenda from groups that are targeting teachers on here. Oh, if only teachers had been nicer to the bullies then this problem wouldn't exist... bollocks.

If a parent starts a genuine thread asking for help, I'll be there helping. Ask around if you don't believe me.

I worked throughout lockdown.

In response to the redundancy issue - I have been under threat of redundancy three times & managed to survive the cut each time. But it is definitely not the case that my job is safe.

I have seen people 'managed out' if they have been unpopular with the head. It's the same as any other job. They get put on an action plan, extra observations, students get to say what they think & it's used against them. It's really not like it might have been many years ago. Academies set their own rules.

Don't forget that lockdown included two weeks Easter, one week May half term and six weeks summer hols. So 9 weeks when schools would have been closed anyway.

"And then in my case I see the teachers who apparently are too busy to do any teaching lolling about in the local park in the day and boasting about their extended family bike rides."

I'm wondering if there is a teacher on the planet who emailed their Head and said, "Sorry, I won't be setting any English for Yr 9 this week, as I'm too busy. The lawn needs mowing and I am off out on a bike ride this afternoon."

I’m a school governor. We haven’t received any complaints about the teaching provided durning lockdown. Material was provided to each child on a weekly basis and families were contacted by email or phone to check everyone was ok and queries responded to.

As a total opposite a friend with two primary DC’s has made a formal complaint that her DC’s were provided with no learning material (not a single thing) and phone calls and emails were not responded to.

@noblegiraffe don’t twist what I said.

I tend not to pay attention to rants, so probably didn’t notice but I’m not responsible for what others write. Yes there are goady posts but there are also pretty shitty replies. Your tone to me was a bit off and I’m pretty neutral. But you can respond how you wish and I’ll form an opinion from it.

I don’t wish to spend the day arguing with strangers or annoying people on their day off! I won’t reply further.

I just reread it just in case @NotDonna

This got me wondering, is this a pressure state school teachers feel too? Certainly at DC’s school no educational provision was given for almost all of lockdown (there were 6 key worker children in the school, out of 420).

I don't see a request to sack someone.

State school teachers worked through COVID.

State school teachers are being made redundant due to lack of school funding from the Tory government. I'm working on redundancy packages just now as school budgets need to be agreed. Two out of three of my LA schools have a deficit budget.

As a total opposite a friend with two primary DC’s has made a formal complaint that her DC’s were provided with no learning material (not a single thing) and phone calls and emails were not responded to.

It increasingly seems this is the general pattern. That is a huge variety in the way schools dealt with lockdown.

State school teachers worked through COVID

What we have learned is that quite a lot didn't, despite being paid.

I genuinely would like to know what job you do OP. You are very good at editing, and at selecting information that only suite your agenda. Your title literally talks about redundancies for not working and you then go on to imply state school teachers are unique in not working because they face no pressure about being sacked.

A private school teacher also could not be sacked for not working.

we have not learnt this at all.