Have state school teachers faced redundancy for not working during lockdown?

[notevenat20]

I recently read

I think those of us who work in the private sector understand we are going to have to work during periods of self isolation whilst juggling family. It was the same during lockdown. We want to keep our jobs so we will have to provide the service.

This got me wondering, is this a pressure state school teachers feel too?

Certainly at DC’s school no educational provision was given for almost all of lockdown (there were 6 key worker children in the school, out of 420).

[quote IHeartKingThistle]@BunsyGirl no idea how your brother got away with that - I've never worked harder in my life than I did in lockdown (except for maybe now!). State secondary here. [/quote]
I think it does depend on the school a lot. DH's school made an early decision for no live lessons and only recorded content if necessary (based on feedback from parents) so he was setting work, preparing/adapting resources and marking work and giving feedback, but that was still a huge time saving because he saved all the time actually teaching the lesson. He's a subject lead; it would have been a lot less work if he weren't as that took up most of his time. BUT: the school is a selective, students nearly universally completed the work and nearly all adjusted well to self-directed work. Pastoral issues were nearly all dealt with by SLT, which would have been totally impossible in many schools (DH did check in with his form regularly but the instruction was to pass anything that needed follow-up on). So I don't think DH and his colleagues were doing a crap job - and he did everything asked of him but more - but they did get dealt an easy hand in a way many, many teachers didn't.

The problem is that all teachers, including me, are lazy fuckers who hate the children. None of us worked at all over lockdown and all did up our gardens.
Being back at school now is a total breeze (although we still hate the kids, so pretend we hear them coughing so they get sent home).
The other amazing thing is that millions of people are desperate to become teachers but no one ever leaves the profession so there are no jobs.
Yes- let's make all the lazy fucker teachers redundant now...

Personally I don’t know any teachers who weren’t working through lockdown. As a school governor I was still ‘working’ through lockdown (not sure if I am allowed to call it working if I don’t get paid for the role, but it definitely feels like work!)

The main thing I have learned about state schools recently is how wildly different they are from each other. You can see it here on MN too where half a dozen posters will explain why something is impossible and can’t be done, to be followed by another half a dozen who say they do it in their schools with no problem.

Incidentally the main feedback the school got from parents was that to begin with the school was setting too much work and expecting too much handed in and that students were getting stressed and so they were all told to rein it in

The problem is that all teachers, including me, are lazy fuckers who hate the children

That’s not good news at all.

how can teachers face redundancy when we all need them to educate our kids? That’s not going to change.
I was a bit annoyed that my DC didn’t get any support or home learning issued, especially considering I know the teacher wasn’t in with Keyworker kids but now DC is back at school they love their teacher and are wizzing through things so I’m kind of over it - whats done is done.
Some people and professions came out of lockdown fine, financially and in terms of a break - some didn’t. I’m trying not to be bitter about that.

@IHeartKingThistle He wasn’t the only one. My god daughter (primary) had no school work for six months. I know of families local to me who have children at different secondaries. Some received a full time table others barely heard from their school. When they complained to the headmaster he basically told them to get lost. Those are schools in three different parts of the country.

Another school senior leader here that has never worked longer or harder than I have since March. Our teachers taught live online throughout too. Some had an easier lockdown than others depending on subject and timetable and some support staff (by no means all) had a fairly easy ride just because of the nature of their role. Most of our SLT are on their knees already, having not really had a break at all over the summer and our teachers are flat-out at the minute, teaching full time and setting online work for students in self-isolation.
None of them would be worried about redundancies. State schools don’t have surplus staff that they can afford to make redundant. They will need the same number of staff to teach children now they are back. I suppose in some schools there may be worries about redundancy due to some subjects being cut to make way for extra catch-up in core subjects but we are not even considering that. Our kids aren’t really that far behind and my year 13s are actually ahead in some ways.

I was a bit annoyed that my DC didn’t get any support or home learning issued, especially considering I know the teacher wasn’t in with Keyworker kids but now DC is back at school they love their teacher and are wizzing through things so I’m kind of over it - whats done is done. Some people and professions came out of lockdown fine, financially and in terms of a break - some didn’t. I’m trying not to be bitter about that.

That is probably the right attitude.

Two good secondary school teacher friends teach the same subject but one at state, one private. The teacher at the private school taught full time via teams, the state school friend went in one day a week to babysit keyworker kids and during that time he uploaded the weekly assignments for his students, 4 days a week he was also working on his now amazing garden.

I don't know any teachers who didn't work during lockdown.
I know a few people who said their children hadn't been set work but what they meant was they weren't getting live lessons, which basically translated as they couldn't sit their children in front of a screen and leave them to it. Primary children, not secondary, who can't really work like that independently.
Many people who say work was not set are either exaggerating because the work wasn't ideal or being told porkies by their teens.

@pooiepooie25 You are being ridiculous. No one said that all teachers were the same but, as soon as people criticise those that did little or nothing during lockdown, you go on the offensive. Stop protecting those that are dragging your profession down. I would like a surgery of all state school parents to be carried out so that we can get a better idea of which schools did well and those that couldn’t be arsed. There needs to be consequences for those that couldn’t be arsed.

*survey

Weird thread, betraying an agenda.

The difference in provision between various state schools was down to the government not setting any minimum standards for education during lockdown. Parents getting poor provision appealed to Ofsted to intervene who said there was nothing they could do as their job is to inspect schools against government standards and the govt hadn’t set any.

There needs to be consequences for those that couldn’t be arsed.

There can’t be. There weren’t any standards that they were failing to meet. And that’s down to the DfE and Gavin Williamson.

@notevenat20

Personally I don’t know any teachers who weren’t working through lockdown. As a school governor I was still ‘working’ through lockdown (not sure if I am allowed to call it working if I don’t get paid for the role, but it definitely feels like work!)

The main thing I have learned about state schools recently is how wildly different they are from each other. You can see it here on MN too where half a dozen posters will explain why something is impossible and can’t be done, to be followed by another half a dozen who say they do it in their schools with no problem.

You are confusing impossible with impractical.

For example, the primary school near where I live went straight to Google classroom and taught that way. This school is in an affluent (but not massively well off) area.
The school I teach in decided against teaching via online lessons like that. The reason being that many households only had one or two mobile phones as their internet access. It wouldn’t have been practical. Not impossible for the teachers to do it but we were much better employed putting daily written exercises on the school website that children could access and complete without using the household’s only internet device for hours on end.
As it is I only had 3 children who would email me their work.

@BunsyGirl

I can’t be first to say it, but the level of angry self righteousness from teachers on mumsnet is astonishing. I am guessing it is a function of anonymous posting online and not a real reflection of the bulk in that profession.

You are confusing impossible with impractical

I can see why you are saying that, but no. We have three primaries half a mile apart from each other with much the same catchment area. They are like chalk and cheese and...err...a third thing.

But the schools that didn’t do anything were technically following the initial Government guidance.

Key worker and vulnerable children provision was meant to be childcare and not lessons as that would have disadvantaged the children who were at home.

If all schools had set up full online provision what would have happened to the students who didn’t have the technology?

Well one of my foster children’s schools have been ordered to account for their (non) actions during lockdown by a judge in care proceedings.

So I’ll be very interested to hear what they have to say. What were they actually doing? Because they weren’t teaching and they weren’t taking any care of vulnerable children.

@noblegiraffe And your comments show exactly why certain teachers did nothing. The complete lack of ability to think for themselves and take some responsibility. Why does the Government need to set standards for someone actually to to a job that they are paid for?!! If you are being paid to teach, surely you teach. Set work, mark work!

Our school gave out workpacks for every subject, to every child. In it was the text books for each subject, and a workbook created by the teacher.

They also had usual classes on Teams, just taught by year group rather than individual classes.

Ive still had a parent tell me there was no work. Yes there was. You just didnt do it.

To answer your question OP, if I had refused to work Im sure I would have been sacked. If we self isolate we are expected to work from home.
If we are too ill to work we contact them as usual to let them know.

It would have been more simpler for schools to have shut completely to all and for all school staff to be furloughed.

Lockdown is over. Schools are back for all full time unless there is an outbreak currently in that school. The schools guidance now outlines the educational provision that must be made in the event of school closures or pupils self isolating. Schools can be held to account for this but not legally challenged for their provision during lockdown as @noblegiraffe has explained.

Well we can tick off today’s bash a teacher thread. Done ✅

It’s not unusual for teachers to be made redundant as a result of budget cuts. Low birth numbers for current cohorts because schools are funded per child even if the following years are bumper sized cohorts leave many headteachers with no choice but to make staff including teachers of shortage subjects redundant.

Our school didnt make redundancies but long term supply were let go. Many schools have long term supply. We also employ teachers on one year contracts to keep flexibility for fluctuating numbers. Some werent renewed. Most SEN TAs have to reapply for jobs each year and TA jobs are regularly made redundant or have their hours reduced.