To those who just want to carry on as normal

[cpatty]

I've name changed for this, as I am sure this won't make me a popular person around here but hear me out and excuse that I really do not have a way with words

To all those who want the vunerable/elderly to stay at home for god knows how long so they can just carry on as normal and not follow social distancing etc and take the risk, would you forgo the right to hospital treatment if you became unwell with covid as a direct result of being irresponsible?

The vunerable people who are being told constantly to just stay at home, will more than likely require hospital treatment over the winter for non covid related issues as a lot of them do regularly. Hospitals full to the neck of covid patients really isn't going to be of any help to these people at all !
We have a vunerable family member, regular hospital attendances and it gets worse in the hospitals year on year. Sat for hours waiting to be seen despite being extremely unwell (and yes that does happen, its not just people who really don't need to be there sitting for hours on end) sometimes days on a trolley or a chair waiting on a bed becoming available and this was before covid !

Personally i'm not too worried about covid in terms of contracting it, because we have been staying in since March so the risks of contracting it are low for us however the worry is that far too many people are carrying on as normal and this will most certainly lead to a lot of them requiring treatment in hospital for Covid and leads me to worry hugely about the access to medical treatment this winter.
And really why should that vunerable person who has taken care of their health as best as they possibly could and followed guidance to avoid getting covid to protect the NHS, why should that person have to suffer because so many other people choose to be irresponsble thinking they are invincible, it won't happen to them, but then they do end up really ill and requiring hospital treatment. This will lead to an overwhelmed NHS !

This folks is why even if you aren't vunerable. Everyone must do everything that they can to prevent it getting to that stage !

What about the elderly and vulnerable people I know who are refusing to be careful themselves? Why do you assume it's only people who think they have a low risk of harm who are being “selfish”? Should we refuse to treat people who are still too fat, despite the warnings? I don’t think you have thought your post through very well, @cpatty.

How do you propose we fund the NHS when the tax take falls to a fraction of what we need? One off poll tax? Property seizures? A return to piracy on the high seas the English were rather good at it?

Well that was a pile of patronising tot!

OP - I sympathise with your concerns

Shielders in particular have been asked to restrict their lives hugely to ‘protect the NHS’ ie make resources available for others

Unfortunately you can see the selfish attitude of many in the rude replies to your posting

I’m with you OP

Seems the AD lot are a bit stressed today. Losing the argument brings out the worst in some people.

Good question though. Would anyone be prepared to put their money where their mouth is and forgo medical treatment. The danger is tiny after all?

I actually don’t think anyone is advocating going ‘back to normal’. Clearly we will have to have measures like social distancing and masks in place for the foreseeable future. And premises like nightclubs cannot reopen.

However, I do not believe it is right or fair for the economy to be destroyed, other health conditions neglected (300,000 fewer cancer referrals and 100,000 fewer treatments since March) and life to be put on hold when the vast majority of people are at zero or no risk from this virus.

In order to make sure we have an economy left to pay for the NHS, we should make sure that those who are at risk are protected by paying their wages and making sure food is delivered.

What we cannot afford to do (and what it is not right to do to young people) is force individuals who are at no risk to stay at home and not contribute to the economy.

Why didn’t everyone just decide for themselves whether they want to risk normal life or hide away?

Why doesn’t

@amusedtodeath1

Seems the AD lot are a bit stressed today. Losing the argument brings out the worst in some people.

Good question though. Would anyone be prepared to put their money where their mouth is and forgo medical treatment. The danger is tiny after all?

What does 'AD' stand for?

@amusedtodeath1

Seems the AD lot are a bit stressed today. Losing the argument brings out the worst in some people.

Good question though. Would anyone be prepared to put their money where their mouth is and forgo medical treatment. The danger is tiny after all?

Don't be so ridiculous. Who are these irresponsible people who should give up treatment? Who is the OP even preaching about? What do you have to have done to forgo your treatment? Plenty people have given up enough. I introduced my parents to my newborn daughter through a window for 6 weeks during lock down. Precious time I will never get back. Most people are doing their best! But most people need to work, want their kids to go to school and some kind of normality and that isn't selfish. This post is just patronising.

Actually yes I would I have to give up a lot of state provision so to check under your system

• education happens and kids get education fro the state

-nhs dentistry as normal

• all nhs cancer steaming as normal

But I give up the opportunity for covid care? Yes on the grounds of our risk factors as a family I think I would go for that! But that is based in our individual risk factors and that I do think I am more likely die of cancer than covid people more likely to die of covid will think differently..it’s not a realistic solution a lot of those who are more relaxed will not need health care but will pass it on to those where it is an issue. Recognising that is at the heart of working out how to solve the problem.

I agree OP. MN is horrible sometimes. I have seen many times on here people saying we should "take the hit of some COVID collateral" and yes, that actually was a real post. Things like "oh they were old anyway and would probably have died soon - it's more important my child can go on play dates".
I sometimes feel I have stumbled into some kind of Nazi wormhole where the elderly, sick and BAME are left to take their chances so that the privileged, white, middle class, middle aged don't have even the slightest inconvenience to their comfy lifestyle.
People should think of others before themselves. Especially the more vulnerable in society. Death is it. The end.

What about the smokers, the drug addicts, the alcoholics, obese people - should they forgo NHS treatment?

What about the vulnerable children?
The parents of children with disabilities who have been brought to their knees with stress through lack of respite. People losing their jobs, homes, businesses. Single people who have been eaten up with loneliness.

Those with mental health problems who are on the edge, a generation of children that may never academically catch up.

We are all vulnerable in our own way, the vast majority of people have made huge sacrifices already, we cannot indefinitely stay at home for one particular group of people.

Oh come on op stop being ridiculous

@PinkLegoBrick

I agree OP. MN is horrible sometimes. I have seen many times on here people saying we should "take the hit of some COVID collateral" and yes, that actually was a real post. Things like "oh they were old anyway and would probably have died soon - it's more important my child can go on play dates". I sometimes feel I have stumbled into some kind of Nazi wormhole where the elderly, sick and BAME are left to take their chances so that the privileged, white, middle class, middle aged don't have even the slightest inconvenience to their comfy lifestyle. People should think of others before themselves. Especially the more vulnerable in society. Death is it. The end.

Wow how unbelievably offensive to assume it's white middle class middle aged people that only have this attitude 🙄

I know elderly people who are gadding about all over the place!

While I’m not sure the OPs post is entirely logical, I do think the people immediately jumping on to say ‘fuck off’ should probably read THAT nhs thread started recently.

I’m not sure people can shriek ‘scaremongering’ while covering their eyes and ears anymore.

The situation is shit and it’s unfortunately not going to go away just because people are sick and tired of it.

No one is actually suggesting withdrawing care to anyone, at least I hope not. It's a hypothetical question.

God some people really have come to believe it's all covid and nowt else. Covid is king.

Healthcare is not rationed on morality and should not be, either, because those in power have realised what an unintelligent way that is to assess access to healthcare.

That's the way it is, you'll have to just get over it and accept it.

Probs about 80k cases today. 80000/66000000 x 100 = 0.12 per day, so over 10 days 1.2% chance of catching Covid which for over 90% of that 1.2% of people is unlikely to be serious. It is of course increasing and next week 1.2% may be 2.4%.

I am happy to wear a mask, socially distance, wash my hands, keep to the rule of 6, with a 10pm curfew. But I don’t want schools, universities, shops, etc to close and I want to go to work. The consequences of a second lockdown will be far more catastrophic than Covid imo.

And I expect the testing to be sorted out or to have a new health secretary as a matter of urgency.

80k cases a day? Where did you get that from?

Happy to take the rebate for anything I’ve paid into the NHS and commit to not using it, where do I sign?