To those who just want to carry on as normal

[cpatty]

I've name changed for this, as I am sure this won't make me a popular person around here but hear me out and excuse that I really do not have a way with words

To all those who want the vunerable/elderly to stay at home for god knows how long so they can just carry on as normal and not follow social distancing etc and take the risk, would you forgo the right to hospital treatment if you became unwell with covid as a direct result of being irresponsible?

The vunerable people who are being told constantly to just stay at home, will more than likely require hospital treatment over the winter for non covid related issues as a lot of them do regularly. Hospitals full to the neck of covid patients really isn't going to be of any help to these people at all !
We have a vunerable family member, regular hospital attendances and it gets worse in the hospitals year on year. Sat for hours waiting to be seen despite being extremely unwell (and yes that does happen, its not just people who really don't need to be there sitting for hours on end) sometimes days on a trolley or a chair waiting on a bed becoming available and this was before covid !

Personally i'm not too worried about covid in terms of contracting it, because we have been staying in since March so the risks of contracting it are low for us however the worry is that far too many people are carrying on as normal and this will most certainly lead to a lot of them requiring treatment in hospital for Covid and leads me to worry hugely about the access to medical treatment this winter.
And really why should that vunerable person who has taken care of their health as best as they possibly could and followed guidance to avoid getting covid to protect the NHS, why should that person have to suffer because so many other people choose to be irresponsble thinking they are invincible, it won't happen to them, but then they do end up really ill and requiring hospital treatment. This will lead to an overwhelmed NHS !

This folks is why even if you aren't vunerable. Everyone must do everything that they can to prevent it getting to that stage !

This a completely ridiculous and illogical post. By the same ridiculous logic would those groups (elderly, immune compromised, life threatening diseases, high BMI etc) that benefited by the reduced transmission rate as a result of the the lockdown be prepared to personally pay the entire cost of this lockdown (furlough, job losses etc) through higher taxes and lower public services (no state pension or no access to the NHS) targeted specifically at them. No because that would be ridiculous.

I should have said too that if my decision to have my dad round in the garden this morning, taking us over the legal limit of 6, in order to comfort him when he was upset about finding out his sister is dying means that I shouldn’t get NHS treatment for Covid then yes, I would make that decision again and forgo treatment.

We are not going to ever get rid of it unless most of us get it If we keep locking down there will be no money for nhs anyways. We need to get on with it and get over it. Vulverable shield if they want to and the rest of us deal with it. We will never get rid of it otherwise

@Jaxhog

I agree Op. Although I believe most people are doing their best to comply with the rules, there is a sizable minority for whom ANY restrictions are an affront to their 'liberty' to do whatever the F they want, regardless of anyone else. They use every excuse including 'mental health' just so they don't have to make changes to their sorry lives.

Well, I just hope they don't expect any NHS treatment or Government help during this time. For example, because of having to shield for so long, which looks set to continue, I haven't been able to give blood this year, which is a blow to the system since I'm O neg. I doubt I'm alone. And if schools and businesses have to close? But hey, as long as they can go to the pub and have parties, what do they care?

Sorry mental health as an excuse?

Do you not believe in mental health or something?

@SoUtterlyGroundDown

I should have said too that if my decision to have my dad round in the garden this morning, taking us over the legal limit of 6, in order to comfort him when he was upset about finding out his sister is dying means that I shouldn’t get NHS treatment for Covid then yes, I would make that decision again and forgo treatment.

I really do sympathise wholeheartedly with you on that one and I can't and wouldn't judge you for that at all ! I would judge you if you decided that your 1 year old would be devastated if their first birthday party with 50 friends and family members crammed into the kitchen so they were proceeding as normal. As I've already said my question was hypothetical...throwing the cat amongst the pigeons but there does need to be flexibility on either end of the spectrum I know lots of vunerable families with children with severe medical conditions and parents in shielding categories who desperately more than anything want to keep them at home, they want to follow the guidance on social distancing (which isn't happening in schools and rightly so..social distancing would be detrimental to the education of the vast majority of children who will not get unwell) but they are being forced by the government to send their kids in or lose their place and for many in areas of high demand on schools that isnt just them removing them for 6 months or a year here or to see how things go after schools been opened for a while if it settles etc, that is going to be a permanent decision for those families who will struggle to get kids back into a school again and it's very unfair. It just seems like it's blanket rules all over in every area and some people just choose not to follow them at all and I couldn't bring myself to criticise someone who had 1 extra person in their garden !

There won’t be any tax payers left soon to fund the NHS, I wonder what will happen then?

I say that as someone who is housebound at the moment and I certainly haven’t met up in a group over 6.

@Jaxhog

I agree Op. Although I believe most people are doing their best to comply with the rules, there is a sizable minority for whom ANY restrictions are an affront to their 'liberty' to do whatever the F they want, regardless of anyone else. They use every excuse including 'mental health' just so they don't have to make changes to their sorry lives.

Well, I just hope they don't expect any NHS treatment or Government help during this time. For example, because of having to shield for so long, which looks set to continue, I haven't been able to give blood this year, which is a blow to the system since I'm O neg. I doubt I'm alone. And if schools and businesses have to close? But hey, as long as they can go to the pub and have parties, what do they care?

Blatantly ignoring the rules and taking the piss should exclude you from any hospital treatment for Covid. Obviously that can't be managed but how can you justify taking a hospital bed if you've been doing what you want and taking no precautions?

I don't know how these people live with themselves.

But the lockdown restrictions never, ever denied people cancer treatment, ever. Cancer appointments were postponed by hospitals to manage the Covid surge. Lockdown restrictions absolutely had a damaging impact on key parts of the country’s life. Cancer treatments were not one of them

But if cancer appointments were postponed then they never got referred for treatment.

Dp back in November last year wanted a scan because he thought something wasn’t right (stage 4 bowel cancer)

His appointment was postponed and postponed till he got one in March. That was cancelled because of Covid

He finally got a scan in July but before he can see a consultant he needed to have a blood test.
He has now had 5 blood tests and has given up ever seeing a consultant as the hospital had lost each blood test.

Personally i'm not too worried about covid in terms of contracting it, because we have been staying in since March so the risks of contracting it are low for us however the worry is that far too many people are carrying on as normal and this will most certainly lead to a lot of them requiring treatment in hospital for Covid

It just comes across as I’m alright Jack because I have stayed in and got my comfy salary whilst there are too many people out and about going to work as usual getting some semblance of their life back.

how can you justify taking a hospital bed if you've been doing what you want and taking no precautions?

How can you justify taking a bed for a weight related issue when you've over eaten? How can you justify taking a bed for a lung related issue when you've smoked all your life? How can you take a bed for two broken legs when you did it on a ski trip?

Oh wait that's unfair isn't it? Same as this.

Fucking ridiculous.

@TrustTheGeneGenie

how can you justify taking a hospital bed if you've been doing what you want and taking no precautions?

How can you justify taking a bed for a weight related issue when you've over eaten? How can you justify taking a bed for a lung related issue when you've smoked all your life? How can you take a bed for two broken legs when you did it on a ski trip?

Oh wait that's unfair isn't it? Same as this.

Fucking ridiculous.

I wasn't aware over eating was literally against the law.

I wasn't aware over eating was literally against the law

Ah so you actually dont care if it's self inflicted you just want alternative punishment for breaking the law. Leaving people to die as punishment is actually much more morally questionable than breaking the rules in the first place. Gross.

I wasn't aware over eating was literally against the law

What about drug overdoses then? That’s against the law. Shall we leave them to die?
What about suicide for that matter? That’s a choice isn’t it?

Obviously I mean attempted suicide.

Plus, breaking the law comes with punishment already. That’s the criminal justice system.
Do you think prisoners shouldn’t get access to medical treatment?

"But the lockdown restrictions never, ever denied people cancer treatment, ever. Cancer appointments were postponed by hospitals to manage the Covid surge. Lockdown restrictions absolutely had a damaging impact on key parts of the country’s life. Cancer treatments were not one of them."

What a pity my BIL's hospital trust never got that memo. In March his cancer was responding well to treatment. It stopped abruptly. He has just had a check-up, for the first time since March and the cancer is back and progressing. They are trying to get more treatment in case it isn't too late, but no, the cancer treatments that were 'never, ever denied' are still being denied.

Just because people in your area are not being forced to sacrifice their lives and health in the name of 'protecting the vulnerable', it doesn't mean people in other areas aren't.

A family member who is supposed to be shielding because he's elderly and has pre-existent conditions gave up sometime in July. He told us he's old now, limited time left, and if he doesn't get out and enjoy what time he has left then what's the (effing) point? He will die soon, but should he die lonely without his family allowed to visit or should he die happy knowing he has made the most of it? He does have regular NHS treatment which, in the end, won't save his life so eff it, he's off down the pub.

I couldn't agree more.

@SoUtterlyGroundDown

But the lockdown restrictions never, ever denied people cancer treatment, ever. Cancer appointments were postponed by hospitals to manage the Covid surge. Lockdown restrictions absolutely had a damaging impact on key parts of the country’s life. Cancer treatments were not one of them.

I’m not actually sure that is the case. My auntie is currently on end of life care because she was diagnosed with cancer at the beginning of lockdown and the treatment she should have had wasn’t going ahead. Yes it was ‘postponed’ rather than cancelled, but postponed to a point in time which meant her cancer was no longer treatable.

I’m sorry to read about your auntie, but I don’t see what lockdown restrictions have to do with the postponement. Whether the Government implemented lockdown restrictions or not, the hospital would have postponed.. In fact if there hadn’t have been a lockdown, Covid rates would almost certainly risen further and even more cancer treatment would have been postponed!

What a pity my BIL's hospital trust never got that memo. In March his cancer was responding well to treatment. It stopped abruptly. He has just had a check-up, for the first time since March and the cancer is back and progressing. They are trying to get more treatment in case it isn't too late, but no, the cancer treatments that were 'never, ever denied' are still being denied.

I’m sorry for your BIL.... The hospital didn’t stop because of lockdown restrictions though. They stopped because they were responding to Covid, which would have happened irrespective of whether lockdown restrictions we’re imposed.

Lockdown restrictions were:

1. People to stay at home, except for very limited purposes.
2. Close certain businesses and venues.
3. Ban all gatherings of more than two people in public.

There was no: 4) Stop all cancer treatment.

If cancer treatment was stopped, that was down to the hospitals and their response to Covid infection.

Jesus @Derbygerbil try empathising instead of telling everyone why it's ok their relatives have died of / will die of cancer.

Fucking hell.

She did not say it's ok that they may die of cancer. How horrible of you to suggest that

She just pointed out that they may die not because of lockdown but because the uncontrolled virus swamped resources

Yet somehow she is wrong for wanting to ensure that many thousands more don't die

@midgebabe

She did not say it's ok that they may die of cancer. How horrible of you to suggest that

She just pointed out that they may die not because of lockdown but because the uncontrolled virus swamped resources

Yet somehow she is wrong for wanting to ensure that many thousands more don't die

She basically did say that. She's only bothered that people don't die from Corona - clearly cancer deaths don't count.

And yet personal attacks show so much intelligence, I'm sure.

Some excellent news being reported by The Independent this evening- the government is going to bring in thousands of nurses from overseas to staff the Nightingale hospitals.

6500 are already on the order book, with seemingly more to come. We now need to run NHS capacity hot and make sure every single bed is being used to treat patients before we even think about lockdown restrictions.

NHS staff should also be out on emergency contracts so they can be moved to where ever they are needed within the country.

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