To those who just want to carry on as normal

[cpatty]

I've name changed for this, as I am sure this won't make me a popular person around here but hear me out and excuse that I really do not have a way with words

To all those who want the vunerable/elderly to stay at home for god knows how long so they can just carry on as normal and not follow social distancing etc and take the risk, would you forgo the right to hospital treatment if you became unwell with covid as a direct result of being irresponsible?

The vunerable people who are being told constantly to just stay at home, will more than likely require hospital treatment over the winter for non covid related issues as a lot of them do regularly. Hospitals full to the neck of covid patients really isn't going to be of any help to these people at all !
We have a vunerable family member, regular hospital attendances and it gets worse in the hospitals year on year. Sat for hours waiting to be seen despite being extremely unwell (and yes that does happen, its not just people who really don't need to be there sitting for hours on end) sometimes days on a trolley or a chair waiting on a bed becoming available and this was before covid !

Personally i'm not too worried about covid in terms of contracting it, because we have been staying in since March so the risks of contracting it are low for us however the worry is that far too many people are carrying on as normal and this will most certainly lead to a lot of them requiring treatment in hospital for Covid and leads me to worry hugely about the access to medical treatment this winter.
And really why should that vunerable person who has taken care of their health as best as they possibly could and followed guidance to avoid getting covid to protect the NHS, why should that person have to suffer because so many other people choose to be irresponsble thinking they are invincible, it won't happen to them, but then they do end up really ill and requiring hospital treatment. This will lead to an overwhelmed NHS !

This folks is why even if you aren't vunerable. Everyone must do everything that they can to prevent it getting to that stage !

YANBU OP

Followed all the rules throughout and long past caring what anyone else does as I can’t control it.

@ellieboulou33

What about the smokers, the drug addicts, the alcoholics, obese people - should they forgo NHS treatment?

What about the vulnerable children?
The parents of children with disabilities who have been brought to their knees with stress through lack of respite. People losing their jobs, homes, businesses. Single people who have been eaten up with loneliness.

Those with mental health problems who are on the edge, a generation of children that may never academically catch up.

We are all vulnerable in our own way, the vast majority of people have made huge sacrifices already, we cannot indefinitely stay at home for one particular group of people.

Exactly.

Most people are or know people who are vulnerable, it’s hardly unusual. I am vulnerable as are my parents and we are following all the rules but I don’t expect the world to revolve around us.

Tbh the only time I have really see the 'vulnerable to lockdwn' thing has not been in a 'so I can go out and partyyyyy!' asshole type way. Its been more along the lines of..so a large percentage of the popularity can catch it, and gain some immunity (yeah we dont know how much yet, but it appears there is some) to make it safer for the more vulnerable people.

As a side note, totally anecdotally, in my circles it appears to be older people ignoring the 'rules'. On MN it seems everyone sees different and in all towns except mine there are thousands of drunken 20 year olds hugging all night in the street and stuff. The ones who actually do maybe have something to worry about, seem not that worried. While the young, who are massively likely to be fine, have been scared to leave their homes! I probably fit just inbetween 'young' and 'old' now. I am not out and about constantly, but have been shopping and stuff and plan to do more soon. I would place a bet on when we do go to the shopping centre, its mainly full of older people like it has been the past 3 times. Not saying they are wrong, far from it. Its just mildly amusing that the ones who are at risk seem to be uncocerned, while those who are 'safe; are terrified.

Bit off point. But yeah, haven't see 'the vulnerable should hide because I want to go to a nightclub' at all. Also it tends to be adding something about supporting them also when mentioned. Allow them the choice to stay in and avoid it, but obviously don't lock em up! Just give the option for them to do so comfrtably if they chose

Hang on, I must be missing something, I thought the more vulnerable people were being told to stay at home for their own health, not anyone else's

They are being advised to stay at home, I don't expect them to if they don't want to.

@Iminaglasscaseofemotion

Hang on, I must be missing something, I thought the more vulnerable people were being told to stay at home for their own health, not anyone else's

Yeah

A fair few seem to have taken this as 'its so we dont use up hospital beds and resources, they dont want to treat us so are locking us away'..rather than the much more logical..they don't want us at such a risk in the first place (which would also save beds and such, if you must look at it that way). Seems to be a bad thing now, to want to give people the choice to keep themselves safe, its the same as locking them up, somehow. Not sure how, given the shielding stuff was never law anyway, was simply advice

My dad was really pissed off about the shielding, as work refused to let him go in because of it, and he wanted to go to work!

MIL is possibly among the most high risk people around and has from the very start been carrying on as normal, with house visits and such. Had to stop some stuff as it closed, but anything that she could still do, she did. I can't blame her really..she was devastated when the original lockdown came into force as her neighbours had been at her saying she cannot come see us/kids for months and months, etc etc..actually made her cry multiple times! I know she wouldn't take the support, if it was there, to stay in. But many would, and I don't see how wanting some way of maybe doing that (no I dont have all the answers though unfrtunately), makes me a selfish monster tbh. But it does. Apparently.

My struggle with this as the daughter of a 74 year old? Mum has done her time and earned her dues and by gods I would be devastated if and when anything will take her. But then I also had 3 daughters who will hopefully be contributing to the rest of us carrying on with this bastard. No win.

We aren't 'breaking rules' with MIL either, before that starts. She lives alone, has severe anxiety and other health issues, and we are her support bubble. Still doesn't stop the gleeful twatty neighbours from regulary going down her neck about her 'being so selfish' as to not want to be in her (tiny) bedsit for a year, with noone around her but them!

@Hotcuppatea

Fuck off OP

Bloody hell, don't beat about the bush now

If I was garunteed to go back to complete normality as it was pre covid I would happily do that without hospital treatment if I got the virus.

I am a big believer that if its your time it's your time. No doubt in 20 years time we will be moaning like crazy that the world is massively over populated by 15-20% yet a virus that has the maximum potential to kill off 0.6% had brought the world To its knees.

Survival of the fittest is the world's natural way of making sure their is a balance. yet we as humans believe we have the right to extend life indefinitely for our own personal reasons.

I get that it's different when personal feelings come into play and it's not all just about numbers. However the world doesn't care about people's feelings.

People who want to go back to 'normal' and have no restrictions at all presumably are confident they won't need any treatment for anything...since they probably couldn't get that during a natural peak of the virus. Their children won't break a limb, no one in the family will get ill....or at least I assume if they do they are prepared to risk it being untreated rather than take more restrictions. They certainly don't fear needing any treatment for covid. So I can't see why they wouldn't go for your idea OP.

I'm absolutely sick to fuck of this fearmongering about this stupid virus and the wailing about the fucking NHS. Without a doubt more people will die from not getting medical care than they will covid. Don't get me started on the absolute shitshow that was dancing nurses when they were claiming to be over run.

My area has just had more restrictions because 70 people allegedly have the virus. 70 out of 70,000. Theyre not dead, dying, or on a ventilator and half of them probably didn't know they had it. No sensible person can think this is a reasonable response.

Never mind these hypothetical "vulnerable " people. Some people are vulnerable and sick now and in my area I'm pretty sure there's more than 70 of them.

And does nobody find it questionable that despite being told this virus is so deadly whole countries are being shut down, people are happy to shove their deadly snot sample in the fucking postbox! Nobody in their right mind would think that's ok. Since when did we put deadly diseases in the post?

@Forgone90

If I was garunteed to go back to complete normality as it was pre covid I would happily do that without hospital treatment if I got the virus.

I am a big believer that if its your time it's your time. No doubt in 20 years time we will be moaning like crazy that the world is massively over populated by 15-20% yet a virus that has the maximum potential to kill off 0.6% had brought the world To its knees.

Survival of the fittest is the world's natural way of making sure their is a balance. yet we as humans believe we have the right to extend life indefinitely for our own personal reasons.

I get that it's different when personal feelings come into play and it's not all just about numbers. However the world doesn't care about people's feelings.

But it wouldn't just be the virus would it? During exponential growth of the virus to a natural peak, you can likely forget any treatment for anything else you or your family might be troubled with.

Would you seek treatment for cancer for yourself or a younger family member, or would you just tell them it's their time?

Also Forgone, that human instinct to survive is a huge factor in natural selection.

@PinkLegoBrick, it's a lot more than "the slightest inconvenience", though isn't it? We are talking about unbelievable damage to the economy, to educational opportunities, to family life etc.

I don't expect obese people or smokers to forego medical treatment just because they made themselves Ill with their lifestyle. So I don't expect people who have got covid by being reckless to forego treatment.

Don't get me started on the absolute shitshow that was dancing nurses when they were claiming to be over run.

My sister is a nurse and was quite angry about all of that. Whenevr she spoke about it though, she was jumped on by people who 'care about NHS staff'..and they berated her for hours, depsite her being bloody NHS staff!

Her problem was not so much them having fun, but basically making out there was no work to be done. Apparently she had a few patients use it as a gotcha..nah, you aren't busy, dancing in the corridoors and such It takes someone quite hard of thinking IMO to assume that because some nurses were doing that, all have no work to do..but she was just sick to the back teeth of the lot of it. The clapping seemed to annoy her the most..and I still don't even know why as she would just totally rage up if asked about it so it was best left alone. I think she uses all her patience reserves up while on shift...

And does nobody find it questionable that despite being told this virus is so deadly whole countries are being shut down, people are happy to shove their deadly snot sample in the fucking postbox! Nobody in their right mind would think that's ok. Since when did we put deadly diseases in the post?

Theres a fair amount of sterile packaging on those things, or there was on the one I did. Seemed about as 'safe' as it could be. But I guess all it takes is one person not reading how to package it and just sending it in the box eithout the biohazard shit too.

(We also werent allowed to put in postbox, had to be haded in at a post office, not sure if thats universal though)

Op, the problem with acting 'irresponsible' and carrying on as 'normal' is that everyone has a different definition of what irresponsible and normal is.

For example I am one of those who thinks that things should be back to normal, but do I think we should be having parties and raves? No. By normal, I mean we should not be treated like 5 year olds who need to be told when to wash their hands, how many people they are allowed to see, are they allowed to see them inside or outside etc.

As for the hospitals being overwhelmed on the best day, that is true and it should be up to the govt to sort that out. Because by that logic we should never go out at all, for the fear something might happen to us and we contribute to overwhelming the hospitals.

I'm in a vulnerable category myself, and with other extremely clinically vulnerable family members. I find your OP patronising bullshit.

You seem to have chosen to more or less isolate since March and are sanctimoniously criticising those of us who haven't.

The poster who claims there are now 80,000 new cases daily is also talking claptrap.

Yo do also realise that other vulnerable people have already been forgoing hospital treatments so that the NHS could morph itself into the National Covid Service, don't you?

Cancer patients and others with other conditions have already had their treatments cancelled or postponed, worsening their eventual prognosis.

I don't think I will follow your lead. It is one of those preachy "let's all be miserable for the greater good" ones.

OP - when your "vulnerable family member" dies of old age/falling down the stairs/car crash on the way to hospital - can we all crack on then or will another of YOUR relatives have moved into the vulnerable group by virtue of co-morbidities which come with age?

Don't be so bloody selfish. The world revolves around exactly NONE of us and we operate as a whole for the benefit of all of us - and of course there will ALWAYS be outliers.

You don't get a fucking hospital bed reserved in your name just because you're often a bit peely-wally.

Fwiw I'm vulnerable and waiting for brain surgery. I'm also a single mum with nobody to take over the kids should I cark it. Yet still I don't believe the entire world needs to come to a halt just for me. What sort of entitled person would do that?

People have to take responsibility for their own actions, if the vulnerable want to go out it’s their choice.

would you forgo the right to hospital treatment if you became unwell with covid

yes, categorically. If it meant DC could get have the education/training they were supposed to be having. Where do I sign up?

but the original query was modified by as a direct result of being irresponsible?

Who defines what is "irresponsible"? Is OP the decider?

To all those who want the vulnerable/elderly to stay at home for god knows how long so they can just carry on as normal

or maybe I shouldn't answer the thread since that isn't me. I can accept many restrictions away from my normal, but no one has convinced me that strangling the economy and making education and training so extremely difficult are right things to do.

Thing is it seems to be lock everyone up or just lock the vulnerable up. The government are talking about a second lockdown soon with a ban on household mixing. You say it’s selfish of people to want to lock away the vulnerable but isn’t it just as selfish for the vulnerable to want everyone locked away because of them? Surely it makes more sense for the vulnerable to stay home and everyone else get on with life and work so that there is money to pay for medical care and education? There are also people vulnerable to other things that are being neglected at the moment. I suffer from depression and have a new baby, I’m more at risk from another lockdown then I am from the virus and no one seems to care about that do they?

Oh gosh, OP do you think you’re unusual for thinking like this? MN is full of posters with your opinion, don’t worry, you’re not alone.