We have a right to education, a right to personal liberty, a right to family time, or we did before Covid.

[Treesofwood]

But not any more. So how do we decide when some people's rights (including right to life) mean that others lose their rights. There have always been people who could get very sick and even die if they were to catch anyone of a number of viruses that circulate every year. No one suggested everyone should give up their right to personal liberty to prevent that. There have always been people who are killed on the roads every year. No one suggested that non essential car journeys should be banned to reduce or prevent this. Why are people with cancer's lives seen as less worth saving than those who might catch Covid? Why are people OK with this? How can the government make it illegal for me to see my parents?

Dumplings Asking if they have access to. WiFi and signposting to Oak academy is not an education.

Oh and I hope you’re not filling your children’s heads with this bullshit.

These kids end up in my classroom refusing to follow the rules (during the best of times) and I have to police as well as teach.

Ah corona virus. More bloody divisive than Brexit.

Treesof I get the impression the LA could provide a full time one on one tutor for your child(ren) and it still wouldn't be enough.

Human rights are inalienable. They are not for the government to relinquish on our behalf.

What I am not clear is the case is that we are being deprived on them. It’ll need someone to take the government to court.

Deprived of them

@Tootletum it hasn't got mu h lower death rates, compared to us (only marginally lower) and compared to its neighbours it's much higher. It has a lower case rate now than it's neighbours but a cumulated it's substantially higher. 5th highest per capita in Europe.

I'm not saying this is the right way, from my point of view it's been reactionary and ill thought out throughout. You only have to look on here to see even health professionals that don't know what the current (ever changing) guidance is. My only point is that Sweden had a lockdown in everything but name, and currently accumulated deaths are not good. How it will pan out is anyones guess. But lauding them.as an example is wrong based on both their accumulated stats, and the very different demographics.

Regarding your example of your mum, I think that's one of the biggest issues, and revolves around communication, which has been literally, worse than useless.

[quote DumplingsAndStew]@PremierInn

www.gov.uk/government/publications/school-attendance/addendum-recording-attendance-in-relation-to-coronavirus-covid-19-during-the-2020-to-2021-academic-year#new-for-2020-to-2021--not-attending-in-circumstances-related-to-coronavirus-covid-19

If your school aren't providing what they should be, you need to do something about that.[/quote]
Again, hilarious!

You think I don't? Wake up. Get real. What exactly can I do if they refuse? Write to my MP? Did that. He tells me it's the school I need to speak to and the government can't do anything but he agrees schools should. Big help there. Write to the governors? Did that. Think they will give a shit? Don't think so.

What do you think I do? Just bitch about it on mn? Get real. This is my son's future.

Every idiot who parrots government advice and ignores the reality is contributing to this. It's not acceptable. Don't pretend it is. How about you do something about it too? Or does it only matter if it affects your kids?

we expect schools to be able to immediately offer them access to remote education

It's literally impossible. We don't have the staff to do this. Hence Oak has been funded. That is the government's solution. If you don't like it, it's them you need to go to. Don't get on to schools about what they 'should' be doing.

@PremierInn

I refuse to communicate any further with someone who reacts so aggressively, in the absence of a sensible, coherent discussion.

Enjoy the rest of your evening. Try not to blow and aneurysm.

Op do you understand that if it looked like people could need emergency icu treatment, on masse, across the entire country, in their tens of thousands at a rate of hundreds of new cases a day because of driving/smoking/whatever, and the nhs was in danger of collapsing as a result then they would bring in restrictive measures to prevent that?
The restrictions aren’t because of Covid per se, they are because there is a serious threat to our ability to treat critically ill people.

And people saying ‘just protect the vulnerable‘ don’t seem to realise that the ‘vulnerable’ are working in our schools, hospitals, courts, emergency services, banks, shops...everywhere. If we quarantine the vulnerable indefinitely who pays their wages, their rent, their bills? We can’t just send them home to hide, we have to try to find a way of minimizing the impact of this virus and that’s what the restrictions are about.

Scholls were promised laptops..some scholls got some but not enough. Some scholls got none. Of the scholls that fot them, they were password protected and no-one on govt or dfe knew the passwords. Not exactly a school issue.

If teachers are fully occupied teaching in school then they cannot provide remote learning at the same time. Extra cash for schools would allow them to provide both.

Have a word with Boris. Don't blame teachers for being unable to be in two places at once.

Kingsley08 My children are perfectly able to recognise for themselves the inconsistencies and frankly insanity of some of these rules. They wouldn't use this an excuse to by rude or defiant to their teacher.
I hope you don't teach your children all about "Karen" and why it's a legitimate insult to use against people you don't agree with.

I'm with you, OP. Why anyone thinks we can control a virus is beyond me. Locking down endlessly simply slows illness and then allows it to ramp back up again, each time destroying the economy more and more, as well as causing a multitude of issues for anyone with an illness that isn't Covid related.

Why are we prioritising the lives of people like my mother - aged 81, with dementia, in a care home? I can't see her, can't spend time with her because of the rules. She cannot leave the care home, I cannot hug her or hold her hand and she will no doubt have no clue who I am if I do get to see her. If she knew that she'd end up in a care home, incontinent, confused and pacing around day after day she'd have wished she was dead years ago. Ditto the other poor bastards in there.

I'm not heartless, I'm pragmatic. Why are we destroying this country to keep people like my mother alive? By the time you have to move into a care home, life is pretty shitty. Yet we're selling out our children, their futures and screwing up people's lives with no game plan and no end in sight.

At the end of the day, if I die from Covid, then so be it. Yes, it will suck for my family but why is there this sudden quest for immortality? Many things in life could kill me. I shall still crack on and try and live until my time comes. People's perception of risk has gone awry - the neurosis and fear among a lot of perfectly healthy people is ridiculous. If you are adamant you must never catch Covid then stay inside and don't leave home. But let the rest of us get on with normal life and its inherent risks.

I hate this life that is being dictated to me. I hate working from home, I hate not being able to plan a nice Christmas, I hate not being able to plan my wedding. I want to go out with as many people as I wish, travel, shop without a fucking mask on and enjoy a normal life. I am beyond angry at this situation that I've been forced into and I do not agree with this blanket infringement of liberty. Thank God for Lord Sumption and the few people who aren't willing to quietly give up their liberty at the drop of a hat.

[quote DumplingsAndStew]@PremierInn

I refuse to communicate any further with someone who reacts so aggressively, in the absence of a sensible, coherent discussion.

Enjoy the rest of your evening. Try not to blow and aneurysm.[/quote]
Yep, you just walk away. You've shown me a nice link to what 'should' be happening, told me it's up to me to sort it out if it hasn't, and there we go .. problem solved

Dapplefolivegroves I'm sorry to hear about your Mum. I think there are many people leading lives trapped in care homes, desperately unhappy due to the very rules designed to prolong their lives.

Madame Blobby I believe there are plans to challenge the measures being taken in court. Not sure of the details.

There's no point op. I'd say 90%+ of mumsnet have swallowed the covid koolaid. They will still be wittering about being safe when there's no economy left, no civil liberties and a nicely functioning police state that ensures they can give free reign to their desires to inform on their neighbours for any infractions. For their own safety you understand.

@Treesofwood

Hoping4onlychild Sweden have less deaths per million than us and a better economy though. We didn't use the Field Hospitals that were opened to much fanfare. It can't just be about saving lives or we would have made such sacrifices before in order to save people from dying. But we didn't.

... No point comparing Sweden to a country like the UK which has 12 x the population density

Sweden has 5-12 x deaths / million of its neighbours - with similar low population density and culture:

Deaths / Million population

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

579 Sweden
49 Norway
61 Finland
109 Denmark

Before lockdown, the UK was following Italy's death curves, not Scandinavia's

@Treesofwood I don't know how old tour kids are, but mine are too young to understand the idea of rules ever being up for debate. It's destabilising for them if they hear adults debating what's right, they think we know everything. So I've explained that it's very important to follow rules, and that I follow them too, even though I don't agree with them. That way I don't end up with a mutiny on my hands....

@MadameBlobby Human rights are inalienable. They are not for the government to relinquish on our behalf.

Only some human rights are absolute. Most rights are conditional. One of the conditions is down to matters of public health. As an extreme example if it turned out a random person was an asymptomatic, but infectious, carrier of Ebola and refused to isolate as they were fine should they be allowed to just carry on their merry way?

With conditional human rights the key factor is that the response must be justified, proportional and necessary. However, with a new and novel virus it is not always clear what steps are the correct ones. The law does allow for ambiguity in such situations as we don't always know what the right choice is until it is all over. I am fucking sick of coronavirus and am not worried about catching it but the hyperbole from all sides needs to stop.

Tootletum My children were able to understand that doing the right thing and following the rules were not always the same thing at the age of 7. Any younger than that and it's more tricky for sure.

@Treesofwood

Ringoring I suppose it is like firefighters. Police officers, members of the armed forces. Do they refuse to go to work?

No it’s illegal for them to withhold their labour. That’s a human right infringement if you want one.

Public health legislation has been around for more than a century. It beat human rights legislation hands down in necessity for a good reason. But rights and ethics often conflict. It’s nothing new.

Btw The Tories might be a shit government led by a buffoon. But they are at heart libertarian. That’s about the only thing I trust Boris on.

When I saw people happily masking their children, I knew we were done for

OMG - where do these people crawl out from - grow up!

OP - you do realise this is not the first pandemic the world has ever faced. Do you think people simply carried on with ordinary life in earlier ones? Do some research and you will find that they took precautions then as well. My father is 87 and when he was a teenager the schools closed because of a polio epidemic (not UK). I didn't even know this until this year because he doesn't feel it destroyed his life to the extent he has to go on and on and on about it. Why do so many people think that no-one in the past has ever had to deal with problems and that things are so much more terrible now?

I'm with you OP. Just had enough of all this covid shite now. I know for sure my mental health wouldn't survive another lockdown. That will be an extra deatb during lockdown and covid related but not by having contracted it!!