We have a right to education, a right to personal liberty, a right to family time, or we did before Covid.

[Treesofwood]

But not any more. So how do we decide when some people's rights (including right to life) mean that others lose their rights. There have always been people who could get very sick and even die if they were to catch anyone of a number of viruses that circulate every year. No one suggested everyone should give up their right to personal liberty to prevent that. There have always been people who are killed on the roads every year. No one suggested that non essential car journeys should be banned to reduce or prevent this. Why are people with cancer's lives seen as less worth saving than those who might catch Covid? Why are people OK with this? How can the government make it illegal for me to see my parents?

So many questions.

Cos this is a new virus that spreads at an alarming rate and our hospitals are not equipped to deal with the masses of people who would require ventilators if there was no lockdown. Also as Sweden showed, if there was no official lockdown and the virus kept spreading, people still wouldn't go out, the economy would still do really badly. We would have a messed up economy and all the deaths too. Which is kind of the situation UK is in as our lockdown in the first few months was relatively liberal.

I do feel your pain, my parents are 8 timezones away and I have no idea when I would see them.

Hoping4onlychild Sweden have less deaths per million than us and a better economy though. We didn't use the Field Hospitals that were opened to much fanfare. It can't just be about saving lives or we would have made such sacrifices before in order to save people from dying. But we didn't.

It can't just be about saving lives or we would have made such sacrifices before in order to save people from dying. But we didn't

Before? When do you mean?

What do you think it is “about”

what do you mean by 'rights'

who says we have a 'right' to this or a 'right' to that?

Smileeachday We could have saved lives by preventing flu from being transmitted, or preventing people from making unnecessary journeys. Curfews probably would lead to less deaths overall too. Banning cigarettes, mandating cancer screening. Lots of ways to save lives at expense of others freedoms.

Ringoring
Human Rights Act

you don't hear of the NHS frontline staff saying they 'have the right' to stay safe and not go in to work because they may get sick

you seeing your parents is a weak argument....try a video call to 'see' them

human rights act....which bit?

Oh dear God it’s you again.
MN can we mute a poster?
Froth somewhere else for a change OP.

I’d like people to not fill up hospitals so that myself or my family can use them for things other than Covid.

Sweden have less deaths per million than us and a better economy though.

Apples and oranges. Compare them with their immediate neighbours, who have comparable population density and societal/cultural approaches to socialising etc, and they have thousands more deaths. Economy isn't doing great in any of the Scandi countries.

Blinking Sweden. If ever there was a false comparison it's this. A country twice the size of the UK, with 1/6th of the population, who spend more of gdp on health and education than we do, and didn't carry on normally as people like to portray. It drives me mad.

What do you think it’s “about” OP?

Amen, OP. I can’t believe people blindly accept this violation of our basic human rights. When I saw people happily masking their children, I knew we were done for. Insanity has taken over and I don’t know that our lives will ever be the same.

Christ, I bet you were frothing when seat belts were made compulsory, and bike helmets, and speed limits.

Child car seats? That must boil your blood.

When I saw people happily masking their children, I knew we were done for

Done for.

Riiiight.

How?

Just to say to OP, yeah that’s what I don’t understand. At what point are people going to say that price is not worth paying? It’s making life quite hard for me now that we are back in the office and allegedly required to wear a mask whenever we get up from our desks. We’ve always had communicable diseases. Last year someone came in to the desk opposite me with an utterly disgusting cold for two weeks. I didn’t catch it as I’m both quite healthy and very keen on washing my hands and keeping a distance from someone with a stinking cold.

We're in the middle of a fucking pandemic, nobody really cares about your rights to "personal liberty" or family time.

Ringoring I suppose it is like firefighters. Police officers, members of the armed forces. Do they refuse to go to work?

With rights come responsibilities. It would be recklessly irresponsible to take no action to control the spread of a virus we know very little about.

Thisismytimetoshine That is my point illustrated perfectly.

Blinking Sweden. If ever there was a false comparison it's this.

I'm fed up with this one too.

Compare them to similar countries:

Deaths
Norway 265
Finland 337
Denmark 633
Sweden 5860

GDP % contraction 2020
Norway -3.51
Finland -6.4
Denmark -6.5
Sweden -8.3

So, you know...

How can the government make it illegal for me to see my parents?

It’s perfectly legal for you to see your parents as long as there are no more than three other people there. Don’t exaggerate.