Another National Lockdown

[Malachite234]

What are the chances ? Sky News are reporting the possibility and a second lockdown has become a reality in Israel.

How likely do you think it is ?

I think it's a possibility in Dec/Jan time. It won't surprise me if the school Christmas break is 4 -6 weeks rather than 2 (finishing earlier than planned & back later than planned). Not sure what they'll do about Feb half term if that happens though.

I don't think it can happen again. As unpalatable as it may be, I think the economy needs to come first now and if that means some lives being lost, then that's awful, but we can't afford another lockdown.

I say that as someone who is vulnerable, but life is for living, not hiding away.

For most people, without underlying conditions, this is a relatively mild illness and ruining the economy will take lives too.

Without a decent economy we can't afford lockdown anyway.

I agreed with the 1st lockdown, but I think the time has come to acknowledge that covid is here to stay (for now at least), so life can't simply stop until a vaccine is found as that is likely to take years.

Instead of, and before, another lockdown happens, I think the current measures of SD, mask wearing and group size, etc, should just be better enforced so that businesses can stay open; possibly with a more official mask exemption policy...maybe a certificate like they use in some other countries so that businesses can legally turn away those simply unwilling to wear one, rather than unable.

@Itsabeautifuldayheyhey

"Mask-wearing (not face coverings) to be worn by law over the mouth and nose outside the home. If you can't comply then, unfortunately, you will need to not go out until you have received a safe, effective Covid vaccine."

@Underhisi:
Clearly torturing profoundly disabled people is something you are in favour of. You must be getting really excited about all the ways you can make people like my son suffer.
I know it would be terrible for some people but drastic times need drastic measures. The virus is still being transmitted too freely and strictness, on a temporary basis, is called for.

People who cannot wear masks aren't immune from the virus. They could have the virus and be asymptomatic and pass it on to others, equally vulnerable, who are also currently exempt so not wearing a mask. Your son could have the virus, asymptomatically, and pass it on to someone else who dies from it.

What would you do if there was a gas in the atmosphere that killed and your choice is between wearing a gas mask to protect yourself and staying indoors away from the gas? Would you not keep your son in , temporarily, until it was safe to go back out?

Good post! Makes logical sense as simply put people have to look at all possible connected scenarios and not just exemptionalism or automatic entitlement. Not so much fuss overseas on this issue of Covid best practice risk mitigation measures.

However on criminal legality - all the mask and maskless chatter online is just hot air and fluff until tested in a senior and highly respected court of law. If someone feels so entitled (as possibly inadvertently kill another) then take it up with the legal system and set a legal binding precedent to finally put the whole unnecessary saga to bed. I suspect courts will proportionately favor the many not the few in overall public safety life and death matters. though I could be wrong but we all need a test case as otherwise the bickering of ableist (favourite weapon of choice attack word) versus exemptionist will rumble on with no definitive resolution. Many TfL drivers have died due to unmasked so who's supporting their rights and the rights of the general traveling public? If only the surviving TfL driver families can too go to court to litigate against the unmasked!

"What would you do if there was a gas in the atmosphere that killed and your choice is between wearing a gas mask to protect yourself and staying indoors away from the gas?"

There is no gas in the air. Actions need to be proportionate. What you are advocating is cruel and abusive to my son, other disabled people and to all the young children who would be locked indoors indefinitely.

Please tell me which country has banned all people who cannot wear masks from going outdoors till a vaccine is found?

Also, although cases are going up, deaths aren't, so it seems that people are contracting a milder form of it, or are simply younger and fitter and so more able to fight it off.

I’m getting dejavu. They’ll never lockdown, they won’t close schools or shut the shops, the government can’t afford it, who will pay their wages blah blah... that was what, February? 😳

I can’t see the decision on the UK locking down or not being something only our government can make. Once other countries start doing so then we will HAVE to do the same. Imagine the uproar if we didn’t lockdown and 100k died as a result. The daily mail and Sky News would have a field day camping outside funeral homes interviewing the loved ones of deceased people who died not through COVID19 but because the hospital ICUs were overrun and their relative died from a treatable issue.

I’m no Tory but the government is stuck between a rock and a hard place. It’s going to be a hard winter.

You're not a lawyer, are you ResIpsa?

@jasjas1973

Absolutely, and who knows what will ultimately happen, but there is definitely a hard date in October that is currently planned to be the start of the programme

PR, just like testing 500k by October, 10million saliva tests by Xmas or the "game changer" antibody tests... promised weeks ago.

It looks very likely that CV was doing the rounds, pre xmas, across Europe, yet it took 2 or 3 months before deaths caught up, probably because it affected the young and healthy first and they passed it on to the elderly etc.

ATM we are in this xmas stage again, so much like in France, deaths will increase and a lockdown of sorts is inevitable, we aren't even able to keep CV out of Care homes, despite knowing what will happen... a deliberate oversight?

PR directed at who though? It's not in the public domain and I shouldn't even be talking about it on here. Tangible things are happening - money being spent on infrastructure, that infrastructure being installed, logistics being sorted, workforce plans confirmed.

I get a feeling of 'yuck' everytime I see a certain posters posts

We're a family of 6. We will ensure we only mix with one household at a time but we certainly won't be sticking to the rule of 6, as even the rule's supporters have admitted it is illogical and irrational.

How could I stop my daughter inviting her best friend over after school, which has a 100% chance of making her miserable, to comply with a rule with zero science behind it, and which the govt couldn't even be bothered to put before the Commons because they knew it wouldn 't have support ....

I think the government will be very reluctant to further damage the economy. I suspect the emphasis will be on individuals with higher risk of hospitalisation to reduce their own personal risk.

What would you do if there was a gas in the atmosphere that killed and your choice is between wearing a gas mask to protect yourself and staying indoors away from the gas? Would you not keep your son in , temporarily, until it was safe to go back out?

And this is comparable to Covid how?

Not least because the mask police want disabled people who are exempt to stay at home to protect them, they couldn’t care less about the well-being of their disabled exempt person

@Snog

I think the government will be very reluctant to further damage the economy. I suspect the emphasis will be on individuals with higher risk of hospitalisation to reduce their own personal risk.

I think that, and I also think they will gradually tighten rather than declare lockdown. If we get to the point where the NHS has to decide who lives and who dies, then we will get a full lockdown. But hopefully we will avoid that.

I think there will be a national shielding programme and a combination of local lockdowns and slowly tightened national restrictions. I really can't see us having a national lockdown like the previous one, it would cause more problems than it solved.

I'm no Tory but the government is stuck between a rock and a hard place
Yep. They're under huge pressure from the very right wing back benchers who don't see why the plebs are worth protecting (financially as much as health-wise). Add in members of the public who think it will only happen to Other People (be it an untimely death, job loss, or Long Covid). These are the people too used to instant gratification and who are unable to a) Learn from very recent mistakes and b) see beyond the middle of next week.

Good governments need to be strong enough to stand up to pressure that leads to dangerous consequences for the country. We're already seeing the economic impact of failing to do the sensible thing that Australia and New Zealand did. A strong leader needs to be prepared to make the right decisions, however unpopular. Preventative, rather than reactive shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted action.

Let's just hope this time round we actually deal with it. Coronavirus isn't going away and the vaccine likely won't be available to everyone for many months. We need a short-term proper (Spain, France, Italy style) lockdown. Then open up again but a gradual easing (like New York is doing. And, this time we need to use our island advantage. Borders closed for up to a year (when to open kept flexible with regular reviews). Obviously freight and essential travel allowed - with proper quarantine when necessary.

That's the best option if we want to avoid even worse economic destruction, widespread bereavement, and previously young healthy people joining the Vulnerable Club after developing Long Covid (with the consequence of many workers being unable to work for months).

Newjez I can't open your link but all I can say is that I have sat in several meetings over the last week about this. Has the author of the article also done so? Perhaps they have and are hearing different info from the centre, but I find that strange as I know that other colleagues across the system are also working on the basis that I have outlined here.

Again, I stress that there may yet be delays, but as things stand mid October is the planned go live. In my experience NHS ops people do not mess around when given a hard stop like that (think Nightingale) so why not give a more tentative deadline or date later in the year if there's really no chance they'll be good to go in some way?

@ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia

Good post! Makes logical sense as simply put people have to look at all possible connected scenarios and not just exemptionalism or automatic entitlement.
Yes, it's as if people just look at one particular aspect in isolation and also only from their own viewpoint without considering the impact on society.

This pandemic has definitely shown some people being fantastically unselfish (all the volunteers distributing food and medicines and checking on the vulnerable). Sadly, it has also shown many to be very insular and have an 'I'm alright Jack' attitude. When will people realise that we are all connected, behaviour by one affects the whole?

Ha ha no understanding of hypocrisy at all.

I don't believe there'll be a full lockdown as compliance has been slacking since the PM failed to sack Cummings. However I feel the elderly and at risk will be asked to shield all winter in order for the rest of us to carry on with 'normal life'.

This weekend I went into my local city for the first time in months . Was shocked at the amount of people not wearing masks including council officers and that included security guards on the shopping centre doors both not wearing masks properly and not challanging those who were entering without a mask. Even my teen DD didn't feel safe so we were both glad to leave.

I have worked in Europe recently and mask wearing is more widespread, even on the streets. They're not just reserved for being inside shops.

PR directed at who though? It's not in the public domain and I shouldn't even be talking about it on here. Tangible things are happening - money being spent on infrastructure, that infrastructure being installed, logistics being sorted, workforce plans confirmed

It's on here isn't?

There isn't an approved vaccine and there won't be one by October... why? because it has to be effective, known to be effective across all population groups and safe for all.
That last bit is critical and why medical trials take so long, sure CV will mean these will be shortened but not to a few weeks.
A CV vaccine that then went on to cause side effects would do untold damage to all the other vaccine programs we have, the anti's don't need more ammunition.

Considering that the govt can't get testing anywhere nr (alleged) capacity (has been as low as 60k per day last week) then hardly likely they'll manage a nationwide vaccine program.

Oh yes, sorry, I forgot. I am a government plant, covertly doing their PR for them.

How could I stop my daughter inviting her best friend over after school
😂

I fear for the resilience of children if they are so entitled that you literally cannot stop them having a friend in your home when it would put you at odds with the law.

I believe this could be done very easily. Yes, it is tough but it isn't forever. The quicker we get numbers of infections down again, the sooner restrictions will be relaxed.

How would you make a tough decision in the working environment?

If you are privy to govt secret plans, then its highly irresponsible to be telling all on here & possibly illegal but as its in a limited and specific way, you should be alright.

“ Welsh health minister warns that national lockdown could be just weeks away

Steven Morris Steven Morris
The Welsh health minister has warned that a national lockdown could be a few weeks away unless people follow the new Covid-19 regulations.

On the day most people in Wales are obliged to wear masks when they go into shops and other public places, Vaughan Gething said the county was in a “parallel position to early February,” adding: “We were in national lockdown in the third week of March.”

Speaking on BBC Radio Wales, Gething said:

We have a number of weeks to be able to get to a position where we can recover some of the ground with a return to effective social distancing, with a return to respecting the rules we have in place to save people’s lives or we will be forced into greater local lockdowns and the potential for another national lockdown.

He said that if a widespread lockdown was necessary he hoped all four governments would work together - but said he would also take Wales-only action if needed.”

Apologies if someone’s already posted that, but I just saw it on the Guardian website.