How can you do this to your children (and yourselves)?

[endoftheworldaoife]

It has been six months and it's now very clear that covid won't be doing away in our lifetimes. A vaccine won't eradicate it (just as a vaccine didn't eradicate flu).

Most of you seem to be willing to accept social distancing and masks for the foreseeable. And I don't get it. We are a tribal species. We literally die without contact and get sick without communication. Kids are learning arrange, stilted ways of being that will just worsen their digital reliance. OCD is being normalised. Dating will be neurotic and masked. Freshers won't make new loves or lifelong friends like we did. As for their working lives...

I wouldn't mind catching covid (indeed I'm sure we all will sooner or later) so can someone explain to me what on earth is happening in their heads to tip the balance? If it only affected us, I could understand (well, I couldn't but this feels like child abuse on a giant scale).

@sunglassesonthetable

I think the other similarity is the blame attached to people for getting sick and spreading the virus to the virtuous

What?

People with HIV face a much worse stigma than people with covid but it's clear people are being blamed for contracting it. You only have to read the governments "dont kill granny" statements to see it.

The standout post on here for me is "Life isn't disposable, but it IS finite"

In today's world where there has to be an answer for everything this is so often brushed aside, and of course it's not something any of us actively want to dwell on, for ourselves or our loved ones
But it's there, it's not going to change and maybe a little more recognition that we can't all live for ever is no bad thing?

@WouldBeGood

I think the other similarity is the blame attached to people for getting sick and spreading the virus to the virtuous.

It’s pretty horrible.

Yes, I saw signs of this and people (Including on MN) saying that people should be criminally prosecuted, like as for HIV. This in itself was promoting stigma for both HIV and Coronavirus by comparing.

I see them being compared as they’re both seen as scary illnesses. As more is learnt about Coronavirus I think this will change. I do get what you’re all saying though in that, like any disease at the start, little is known.

I also find interesting how the virus attaches, and like others those without the needed receptors for it to take hold will be immune. Now there I can make comparisons. 😀

But it's there, it's not going to change and maybe a little more recognition that we can't all live for ever is no bad thing?

So where do we draw the line?

Do we stop treating cancer or heart disease because life is finite? Do we stop doing organ transplants because we all die eventually? Maybe stop using antibiotics because we can't live forever?

Where do we decide life is finite and we need to accept that death happens and where do we try and delay death or treat illnesses that could cause death?

@EDSGFC

But it's there, it's not going to change and maybe a little more recognition that we can't all live for ever is no bad thing?

So where do we draw the line?

Do we stop treating cancer or heart disease because life is finite? Do we stop doing organ transplants because we all die eventually? Maybe stop using antibiotics because we can't live forever?

Where do we decide life is finite and we need to accept that death happens and where do we try and delay death or treat illnesses that could cause death?

Yes. We do stop treating cancer etc when the costs of the treatment exceed the perceived benefit. The NHS budget is based on the idea that 1 additional life year is worth £30,000.

It's not about giving up on medical treatment, it's about recognising that rightly or wrongly we do put a price on life. Therefore we need to way up the costs of our response to the coronavirus pandemic in the way we do to other illnesses.

But it's there, it's not going to change and maybe a little more recognition that we can't all live for ever is no bad thing?
and maybe a little more recognition that we can't all live for ever is no bad thing?

In the context of preventable illnesses? For people who currently live well. No thanks.

it's not going to change
What is not going to change?

Yes. We do stop treating cancer etc when the costs of the treatment exceed the perceived benefit. The NHS budget is based on the idea that 1 additional life year is worth £30,000.

Covid is nowhere near as clear cut as this though is it?

Many decisions are involved in stopping treatments, not only financial ones and often these treatments aren't curative or extend life beyond months. I know this isn't true in every case.

But with Covid you can't limit it to certain groups of people who meet your criteria. So, if it's spreading exponentially you can't know if it will strike down a 90 year old or a 40 year old, if the 90 year old will get little more than a cold or if the 40 year old will spend weeks on a ventilator and end up with severe brain impairment. So the cost Vs life expectancy doesn't work very well, particularly as we don't yet know the extent to which those with mild illness might suffer long term complications.

Gosh - this thread is nearly full