How can you do this to your children (and yourselves)?

[endoftheworldaoife]

It has been six months and it's now very clear that covid won't be doing away in our lifetimes. A vaccine won't eradicate it (just as a vaccine didn't eradicate flu).

Most of you seem to be willing to accept social distancing and masks for the foreseeable. And I don't get it. We are a tribal species. We literally die without contact and get sick without communication. Kids are learning arrange, stilted ways of being that will just worsen their digital reliance. OCD is being normalised. Dating will be neurotic and masked. Freshers won't make new loves or lifelong friends like we did. As for their working lives...

I wouldn't mind catching covid (indeed I'm sure we all will sooner or later) so can someone explain to me what on earth is happening in their heads to tip the balance? If it only affected us, I could understand (well, I couldn't but this feels like child abuse on a giant scale).

Sorry bold fail

Smaller classes, mask wearing, keeping desks six feet apart and providing adequate ventilation, they say, are likely to be crucial until a vaccine is available

And we are not doing ANY of this in state schools in the UK (private schools is another matter - any studies ongoing about infection rates in classes of 15 or less and 30? No? What a surprise)

PHE showed transmission of coronavirus in schools possible in June / July when they were doing social distancing (which kept cases low). I don't know why they thought more than doubling class sizes against a higher level of community infection was a good idea.

And on top of that, it's impossible to get tests.

The fact that the government is allowing up to 30 people to go hunting and grouse shooting should be making people sit up and notice what farce this is.

You can’t go and sit with your family in a garden SD but 30 upper class men can gather and go and kill some animals for sport.

Also unmarkedbythat, you don’t want to go back to a bad situation which we was in for nearly half a year - so your willing to accept ludicrous rules that don’t reflect the science just to have a tiny bit of normality.

It’s a classic abuse physiological situation. Offer the abused a tiny shred of normality whilst stripping away basic rights under the threat of returning to the ‘bad times’

underestimating the suffering done by lockdown and these restrictions

The suffering?! What wearing a mask, washing your hands and keeping your distance. You have a warped idea of suffering if that is how you describe it.

I might be underestimating the impact on covid if left to it's own devices

Yes I definitely think you are, I am glad you can see that. Reasonable worse case scenario: 85,000 dead this winter (SAGE) www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53954492

It's a fight between the most vulnerable isn't it? Surely there's a way for those most able and willing to help out in some way?

The vulnerable have the option of shielding, we can all help by keeping our distance, washing our hands and wearing a mask - and following the law about gatherings of more than six.

They're not just collateral damage

Your post is confused, on one hand you say the lockdown is causing harm, and the next you are worried about the vulnerable being collateral damage. You can't have both. We either all manage with moderate restrictions to protect the old and the vulnerable that is not too onerous, and allows us to carry on to some degree with our lives, or we don't bother and they become fodder to covid.

At the moment we are straddling both with the current restrictions, we are managing to keep the infection down to a reasonable level, whilst keeping our schools and services open. It is a tightrope.

@sunglassesonthetable

The majority of people are keen to avoid another hard lockdown and 45,000 deaths, and whatever we can do to avoid that, and lets face it the restrictions are hardly bloody onerous, should be embraced wholeheartedly

yep 👍🏻

Well yes if your a sheep and can’t be arsed looking at the data and science.

Meanwhile plenty of people are following ONS and other accredited scientific organisations and seeing this this is an absolute farce.

*so your willing to accept ludicrous rules that don’t reflect the science just to have a tiny bit of normality.
*
no to check the spread of an easily spread virus.

The vulnerable have the option of shielding

Vulnerable teachers, children and parents do not have this option. Are being forced to go to school under threat of fines, losing places, not to mention the educational inequality of no alternative education provided.

@IloveJKRowling

The vulnerable have the option of shielding

Vulnerable teachers, children and parents do not have this option. Are being forced to go to school under threat of fines, losing places, not to mention the educational inequality of no alternative education provided.

There is an alternative? I had to use it last term.

You are being utterly ridiculous code do you actually believe the claptrap you are coming out with? Perhaps you need to go and visit a covid ward and see for yourself the carnage and suffering.

classic abuse physiological situation what by trying to save as many lives as possible? It would be industrial scale abuse NOT to respond to a growing infection rate.

If you genuinely believe you are being 'abused' by the government by being asked to wear a mask, hands washed and keep a distance from others, I don't think there is anyone anywhere that can help you. You are worryingly deluded, and I only hope you are not passing this mindset on to your children.

Well yes if your a sheep and can’t be arsed looking at the data and science.

Sheeple, sheep, baa whatever @Codexdivinchi

You just made yourself look really stupid

Code you mentioned Germany, but what is happening in France with hospital admissions?

You have not posted one single link to say the virus is declining code, not one single link to confirm that the virus is not spreading to older more vulnerable age groups. You are not backing up anything that you are saying. So I wonder who you are, and your purpose for peddling lies on forums.

Just to be clear the infection IS spreading to older groups:

metro.co.uk/2020/09/13/worrying-surge-in-coronavirus-cases-among-people-in-their-50s-13264332/

www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/analysis-does-uk-face-spike-covid-19-admissions-hospital/

I am not sure Code has a real handle on anything here in the UK or in Europe actually. Have you looked at the cases in Russia for example?

I'm in Scotland where we didn't have the % of people ill in London in March and April. There's no way I believe a winter outbreak here would show the virus is in decline. I wish it might be so but no it's not a science based belief as I can see it from a fair bit of searching beyond the confines of the TV news. Open to hearing new info though.

I agree some decisions have been farcical. We have had too many examples of poor leadership : public events like Cheltenham and the football, and from chronically selfish types like Cummings and the Scottish health chief doing their own thing.

@Codexdivinchi that you're confusing fairly basic words like physiological and psychological in your posts doesn't give me any confidence that your reading of science and data will be somehow better or more accurate than my own

@IloveJKRowling

Sorry bold fail

Smaller classes, mask wearing, keeping desks six feet apart and providing adequate ventilation, they say, are likely to be crucial until a vaccine is available

And we are not doing ANY of this in state schools in the UK (private schools is another matter - any studies ongoing about infection rates in classes of 15 or less and 30? No? What a surprise)

PHE showed transmission of coronavirus in schools possible in June / July when they were doing social distancing (which kept cases low). I don't know why they thought more than doubling class sizes against a higher level of community infection was a good idea.

If all schools could offer half the time in school this might be viable. They can’t. Some schools could only offer 4 days every 3 weeks to kids even in senior school/exam years. That is not feasible.

At school they are in year groups so that socialising with 30/60 kids

If My family was to meet up with two other people ( thus making 6 ) every weekend I'd be more sociable than I normally am
Your kids can have a different friend or friends to play every night preferably outside with hand gell before eating
Take your kids to the park take them to Harry Potter world / beach whatever
Rule of 6 means don't hang out in gangs it's not hard and not abuse

Your kids can have a different friend or friends to play every night preferably outside with hand gell before eating

Hand gel is a short term alternative to soap and water.

Hand gel tests used to be a part of the practical side of Science lessons, I say used to as I now assume that this is scrapped along with all the practical parts of Science. And secondary school teachers around?

Any* not and.

[quote DameFanny]@Codexdivinchi that you're confusing fairly basic words like physiological and psychological in your posts doesn't give me any confidence that your reading of science and data will be somehow better or more accurate than my own[/quote]
Predictive text. But sad you’d prefer to pick up grammar than actually think for yourself instead of blindingly swallowing up what the news and government say.

Don’t take my word on the data OR the governments. Look for yourself.

There is a daily COVID fatality death count on google. 6 people died yesterday in the whole of the U.K. We’ve 65 MILLION people living here.

The new rules and threats of lockdowns do not justify this. They have hinted it will be the same till Christmas.

How many people die a day of cancer or RTA?

47,000 pubs opened up seven weeks ago? Why wasn’t there a massive wave again? Weather spoons having 33 million customers through its doors since they reopened and only 60 catching the infectIon . Where are all the deaths??

As of today Scotland have just stopped counting COVID patents who have recovered it’s dropped from over 250 to 48 In the whole of Scotland. Yet STILL subjugate the economy and society to Covid.

Why have England never published the data of all the people that have recovered? Why would they want to keep that secret?

That column was never filled in in the collated figures I saw. I never thought it sinister!

[quote DameFanny]@Codexdivinchi that you're confusing fairly basic words like physiological and psychological in your posts doesn't give me any confidence that your reading of science and data will be somehow better or more accurate than my own[/quote]
Oh and please send me the science links you’ve been getting your info off - we can do swipsies

The empty "recovered" column, if this is what you are referring to, is annoying when you are looking at comparing the stats and for completeness but it's hardly conspiracy material.

Let me know if you've anything concrete.

@Friendsoftheearth

I am not sure Code has a real handle on anything here in the UK or in Europe actually. Have you looked at the cases in Russia for example?

We dont live in Russia.

Are you not aware of the ONS.gov.uk

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases

Or maybe CEBM - The centre for evidenced based medicine - Oxford.

www.cebm.net/

I can list more if you like. But yeah you focus on Russia ....

code I think you will have a much stronger argument in eight weeks time if the infection rate is rocketing and we are still seeing relatively low hospital admissions. Until that point it is pure speculation, and an unnecessary risk to innocent people that could die because you were wrong.

I say it would be far more prudent to be cautious and accept the restrictions until we can be sure.