How can you do this to your children (and yourselves)?

[endoftheworldaoife]

It has been six months and it's now very clear that covid won't be doing away in our lifetimes. A vaccine won't eradicate it (just as a vaccine didn't eradicate flu).

Most of you seem to be willing to accept social distancing and masks for the foreseeable. And I don't get it. We are a tribal species. We literally die without contact and get sick without communication. Kids are learning arrange, stilted ways of being that will just worsen their digital reliance. OCD is being normalised. Dating will be neurotic and masked. Freshers won't make new loves or lifelong friends like we did. As for their working lives...

I wouldn't mind catching covid (indeed I'm sure we all will sooner or later) so can someone explain to me what on earth is happening in their heads to tip the balance? If it only affected us, I could understand (well, I couldn't but this feels like child abuse on a giant scale).

@flymyprettyfly yes to all of your points. I do believe this is what will happen.

Too many people have been so indoctrinated by the scaremongering that they will forever be warped in their thinking about all this.

And just like religion and other social customs, structures and beliefs, these will be passed on to their children.

There’s been a big drive that we have to protect the vulnerable from Covid and I have been completely behind that and agreed but now we’re seeing that in doing that we’ve thrown another type of vulnerable people to the wolves - women in abusive relationships, children living in poverty, children living in abusive homes, people with mental health problems then on a less catastrophic level new mums with shaky mental health, pregnant women during birth, all the people who have lost jobs who now can’t pay their mortgages and benefits obviously don’t cover, small business owners, I could name so many people then there’s the effect on the economy and our children’s future. I’m not sure what was worse in some ways.

Come back after the vaccine programme and see if you can still make these claims. It will be very interesting if there is still a case to answer. Most parents are law abiding, socially responsible people who are doing what they're asked to do for a relatively short period of time. I think you need to give it a bit longer before writing your post-under the current circs it is hysterical. We can certainly keep the virus in low numbers with behavior changes then a vaccine etc and if your child was vulnerable that might not seem like child abuse.

Flymypretty - I think you've probably illustrated the point well. Most people don't realise that this is forever. There will never be a point in the rest of our lives when covid isn't killing people. Just as flu kills people now.

The only thing that could change is the tolerance for restrictions but I can't see what would trigger that. A majority are bedded in.

And it's actually official government policy that life can't go back to normal without an effective vaccine. That is normally a matter of many years. If ever.

Right now hundreds of thousands of kids have had their school results messed with, their friendships separated and their university experience ruined. Why pay £10k a year in fees to sit in a dorm room and imagine what tutorials used to be like?

I'm in my late thirties and I have several friends who are facing the likelihood that they will never have kids because of this interruption to their lives.

I know a child psychiatric nurse who hasn't seen her "green" cases since February. No one with a psychiatric nurse is a green! But they've been forced to cut services.

The permanent damage will be like an amputated limb for our society.

My children would rather grow up with a father than without one. It’s simple - follow the rules and and reduce the risk.

They are still managing to see friends and attend clubs in as safe a way as possible. Holidays may look a bit different for a few years, but we have had some fantastic holidays in the past and scaling down what we do will do them no harm.

Nice to read a thread of realistic views rather than the usual shrieking of "selfish! Murderer!"

Re the vaccines likely by next winter (not before)

The Oxford vaccine won't stop you catching or spreading it, it just lightens symptoms

It doesn't work well on the over 55s (who are the ones with the dangerous symptoms)

About half of Brits don't want to take it anyway because it's so rushed

Living in hope of a vaccine is the act of someone who doesn't fully appreciate that we're not in a blockbuster film and Dustin Hoffman isn't around the corner

but this feels like child abuse on a giant scale

My (teen and pre-teen) dc enjoyed their long break during lockdown, kept in touch with friends online (as they normally would during the holidays). They are now back at school seeing their friends every day. Now that we have the 'rule of 6', my teenage dd can have 5 of her friends round instead of just one (while dh, ds and I go out). Ds' sporting activity has started back up and we've booked individual tennis coaching for him. Dd started teaching herself an instrument during lockdown. We've spent quality family time together.

I fail to see how this constitutes child abuse. People will still fall in love and find ways to enjoy themselves in difficult circumstances- that's what human beings do.

Steeper - I don't think it's right that your children should feel responsible for keeping their father alive by giving up their freedom.

It's not just about holidays, is it.

How do you fall in love without physical contact? This isn't difficult, it's beyond anything our species has ever had to endure. We only exist at all because of our capacity for closeness and cooperation.

I agree with you OP but it's pretty pointless posting on here, you'll just get a lot of judgement about how you're selfish or stupid or both.

I came off MN in early March due to the generalised hysteria, and I can see it's getting close to time to do the same again.

Living in hope of a vaccine is the act of someone who doesn't fully appreciate that we're not in a blockbuster film and Dustin Hoffman isn't around the corner.

Presumably everybody hopes for a vaccine. That doesn't mean they aren't getting on with life in the meantime. What a load of dramatic posturing.

Ddij I am very sorry for you that that's the case. But there is a lot of evidence over many decades of the harm isolation does to the body and mind.

And ons statistics show a huge spike in excess deaths not from covid at the time of lockdown.

@endoftheworldaoife

So what should happen to families with vulnerable members? They should be told to crack on and Covid be damned? It’s not going away, so either they take a level of responsibility or they shrug and say “what will be will be”. If it’s someone you love, would you not want to do what you could to prevent them dying?

I'm semi with you op.

I can live with masks, rule of 6, social distancing in the hope that there may be a vaccine rollout by this time next year. Life is more limited but I can make the best of it.

But when I read people crying out for school closures, fucking blended learning which is basically just part time school. I want to weep.

Imo my children haven't got time to waste losing their education and wasting their childhood years. They really suffered missing out on formal education and socialising with their peers.

If you ask me most of the ones who are so desperate to keep them off (judging by my dcs schools) are the ones who need to be in school the most.

Where I live, the rule of six is adapted so it can only consist of two households. So it's illegal to meet two friends who don't live together.

People are being fined £10,000 in England for peaceful protest.

This isn't "dramatic" this is a time of very serious danger.

@SteeperThanHell

My children would rather grow up with a father than without one. It’s simple - follow the rules and and reduce the risk.

They are still managing to see friends and attend clubs in as safe a way as possible. Holidays may look a bit different for a few years, but we have had some fantastic holidays in the past and scaling down what we do will do them no harm.

That’s our situation too. Dd finds it hard to wear her mask at school but says she would rather put up with that than potentially lose her dad.

We are sticking to the rules as much as we can whilst getting a balance between keeping dh safe, the teenage dc happy and thriving and also running our own business. Dd has made new friends during lockdown so it hasn’t stopped her really and they know to keep their distance.

Ds finds it tough at times. He started college last year so was enjoying the new freedom and experience until suddenly stuck at home 24/7. He has found things to do and a way of living that fits in the guidelines.

However I do think it won’t harm them long learn to have to follow some different rules and regulations. My parents were children through the war so had a disrupted Childhood but they went on to live happy lives without too much trauma.

Atm I can see low socialisation will help school stay open.

What happened for last six months was much worse to me than now. My dc are so happy to be back at school. I’m not looking backwards but it is sad they missed out.

On interaction they get loads. At school, seeing friends, dd now goes to nursery two mornings a week and that is still un-masked staff playing with her one on one.

It is horrible though. I’m sick of it and the thought of school bloody closing again is not a good one. I’ll do what I can until they change the approach for schools,

I have family in Covid free state and the difference is hard.

Artesia - if I got covid and died I would consider it part of the way the world works. I think we all need to get real about how much we can demand from others. I also think quality of life is more important. You think people locked in the carehomes are happy to be ekeing out those moments? I'm sure views vary but I'd rather have visitors.

OP - you talk about falling in love. What about people who have fallen in love with someone who is vulnerable. Should they not take steps to protect them? Or does their love and happiness not matter?

@endoftheworldaoife

A responsible community would not shut down in the face of a disease most people don't even know they have. What sort of community causes massive harm to their own children?

We are six months in and we know this won't be gone for years. In a couple of months millions of families are going to learn what genuine poverty looks like. Older children won't ever get back this time. Their lives are scarred for good.

Tbh I don't see the massive harm being caused to children! My little one goes to school, plays and exercises outdoors, has a fun normal life for the most part.

Dont make it worse for your children by catastrophising, would be my advice. They will be fine. Children have coped very well with worse than this. Model a sense of resilience and perspective and more than likely your kids will follow suit.

It has been six months and it's now very clear that covid won't be doing away in our lifetimes. A vaccine won't eradicate it (just as a vaccine didn't eradicate flu).

Have you updated the scientists across the world with your 'knowledge'? It would save them an awful lot of time, money and hassle knowing that they should just give up! FFS people like you making ridiculous declarations like this as if they are fact are just dangerous

Agree OP.