Is the U.K. in danger of becoming a police state?

[Chocolategirl1]

We have now been living with restrictions to our civil liberties for 6 months. The state now has the power to force us to dress in a certain way (face coverings), to restrict our right to family life (no more than 6 in social gatherings), to give up our personal details to retail establishments (contact details to restaurants/pubs), to give up our children’s right to a fair education (continued closures of schools following coronavirus cases), in some cases to give up our right to run a business or work (for example those businesses that can’t run properly due to social distancing etc), and now we have more police powers for enforcement of these rules and apparently “Covid Marshalls” to spy on people and control their behaviour. And there is no definite end point to any of this. None at all. There are vague “hopes” that the state will “try” to return to some kind of normal by a Christmas, but now that’s apparently dependent on regular mass testing - which in itself is a restriction on liberty. My worry is this: now that the state has realised it can control people in this way, will it give up those powers at all? Even if we get a vaccine, will the state actually give us back our freedom like it was before? And what if we never get a vaccine? People may say that all of this is justified by a virus (though a virus that has overall an extremely low fatality rate) but many governments throughout history have taken their citizens’ rights away permanently. How do we know our government won’t do the same?

NO
Goodness gracious me. The intelligence of some of the people on this forum is frightening. This is a Worldwide pandemic if you hadn't actually noticed. The only thing with the "power" as you put it is the actual pandemic.

@friendlycat

NO Goodness gracious me. The intelligence of some of the people on this forum is frightening. This is a Worldwide pandemic if you hadn't actually noticed. The only thing with the "power" as you put it is the actual pandemic.

It is somewhat startlingly rabbit-hole like at times. These threads always stir it up.

Goodness gracious me. The intelligence of some of the people on this forum is frightening. This is a Worldwide pandemic if you hadn't actually noticed. The only thing with the "power" as you put it is the actual pandemic.

Actually, I am perfectly intelligent. While I do understand and support measures to be taken against COVID-19, I have genuine and (I feel) valid concerns about the government's handling of the situation and whether the measures they have introduced are acceptable and within their remit. I'm not happy to give the government carte blanche to do whatever it feels is necessary. The government must be held accountable. It's strategy is all over the place and there have been so many U turns and contradictions, it is unacceptable. It really is shocking to me that anyone is happy to place their faith in this government and blindly accept anything they say without question.

@Nikori

Goodness gracious me. The intelligence of some of the people on this forum is frightening. This is a Worldwide pandemic if you hadn't actually noticed. The only thing with the "power" as you put it is the actual pandemic.

Actually, I am perfectly intelligent. While I do understand and support measures to be taken against COVID-19, I have genuine and (I feel) valid concerns about the government's handling of the situation and whether the measures they have introduced are acceptable and within their remit. I'm not happy to give the government carte blanche to do whatever it feels is necessary. The government must be held accountable. It's strategy is all over the place and there have been so many U turns and contradictions, it is unacceptable. It really is shocking to me that anyone is happy to place their faith in this government and blindly accept anything they say without question.

This is perfectly understandable and acceptable if you also disagreed and rejected any furlough or other government Covid financial "freebie." As otherwise selective governmental rules adherence is a bit hypocritical possibly?

@alwayscrashinginthesamecar1

I don't want to derail the thread any further. But of course none of us knows how this whole thing is going to pan out. We are certainly safe as we can be in WA for now though And mumsnet is full of people happy to slag odd Australia as I'm sure you are aware, but I accept that you aren't one of them, my apologies for that. Your point about the booze bus is a little odd, though. Don't you think they are a good thing? And I know there are plenty of opportunities to be breatho'd in the UK as well, but surely that is a good thing and hardly an indicator of a police state?

I wasn’t passing judgement on whether be BO’d is a good or bad thing. Just saying it’s a difference. And I’ve lived in the U.K. for 8 years and never once been breathalysed or seen anyone else being breathalysed. There is notably lighter sense of police presence here.

Also on Oz, from a U.K. article on extreme Covid responses:

Earlier this month, Zoe Buhler, a 28-year-old pregnant mother, posted the following on Facebook:

‘PEACEFUL PROTEST. All social-distancing measures are to be followed so we don’t get arrested please. Please wear a mask unless you have a medical reason not to. September 5th is FREEDOM DAY!’

Nothing wrong with that if you live in a free country, right? Unfortunately Zoe lives in the Australian state of Victoria, currently under a strict lockdown, and where dissent is crushed without hesitation.

Police arrived at her door, she was handcuffed in front of her family, had her computer and phones confiscated, and was taken away. She now faces up to 15 years in prison.

With most Australians unable to leave the country without special permission, Melbourne resident James Bolt argues that it is, once again, a “convict nation”.

He adds: “This travel ban puts Australia on a par with Belarus, Namibia and the Ivory Coast for restrictions on international travel. Even New Zealand, famous for its draconian lockdown at the outset of coronavirus in a single-minded elimination strategy, only goes as far as advising New Zealanders not to travel.

“The message is clear, the Australian government knows the right decision for its citizens, far more than they do.”

www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/comment/world-gone-mad-part-2/?li_source=LI&li_medium=li-recommendation-widget

This is perfectly understandable and acceptable if you also disagreed and rejected any furlough or other government Covid financial "freebie." As otherwise selective governmental rules adherence is a bit hypocritical possibly?

Am I allowed to be concerned about this, worried it’s the thin end of the wedge, and hoping that the opposition will hold the government to account? I think I would qualify under your arbitrary rule, since I’m an nhs worker and have worked as usual throughout. You’re actually saying that anyone who’s been furloughed isn’t entitled to question the actions of the government though? Really?? 😂

No. Don’t be so silly.

@Nikori Australia. Where six police officers arrested two old ladies for... Sitting on a park bench.

@MsWonderful

This is perfectly understandable and acceptable if you also disagreed and rejected any furlough or other government Covid financial "freebie." As otherwise selective governmental rules adherence is a bit hypocritical possibly?

Am I allowed to be concerned about this, worried it’s the thin end of the wedge, and hoping that the opposition will hold the government to account? I think I would qualify under your arbitrary rule, since I’m an nhs worker and have worked as usual throughout. You’re actually saying that anyone who’s been furloughed isn’t entitled to question the actions of the government though? Really?? 😂

No this is not what I meant nor inferred.

Essentially we either accept the interventionist UK governmental approach especially as initially requests and suggestions to stay home stay safe and out of trouble were ignored needing a governmental change to instructions (still not strict lockdown as such.

I have the upmost respect and appreciation for all key criterial workers as obviously you we duty bound to keep a bare bones system operational.

However coming back to challenging governmental interventionist policies and rules is fine as long as it like the government is intended to make things better not worst. We are forever a most democratic of societies as you may recall the political leadership even gave the public (many with no clue) the right to determine our future global trading relationships. This is not the signs of any governmental controlling and limiting your human rights! The Scots even had a choice of in or out. These are freedoms of choice not martial law.

By all means challenge the government on policy evidently given our dismal and very sad Covid performance track record we can only improve and hope to retain lives and livelihoods better.

Essentially let's not always blame others as
what solutions would you offer instead? If good and makes sense on balance then they can be introduced and implemented especially as we have a make it up as you go along u turn political leadership. We need to follow governmental advice when it makes sense but also to think do we agree on the whole but actually need to personally do more and take extra precautions just to ensure a better Covid outcome?

No, it's nowhere close.
Honestly, some people don't know they're fucking born.

[quote Cornettoninja]@Firef1y72 we don’t need herd immunity to be in a better position than we are now. Outbreaks slow at a much lower percentage because of the breaks in the chains of transmission in the community.

This country doesn’t routinely vaccinate for chicken pox but we’re not over run with it because of the same thing. In fact I’m now considering paying for the chicken pox vaccine for my dd because she hasn’t managed to pick it up yet and I don’t want her to have to deal with it when she’s older and it’s liable to be worse for her.[/quote]
Please give her the chicken pox vaccine. I caught it in my 30's and it wiped me out for two weeks. My GP told me it can be severe in adults.

I wondered where all the conspiracy theorists had congregated. This is not a police state, not even close, just a country full adults behaving like petulant children. The government (foolishly) said they trusted the public to act responsibly and look how that turned out.

We are in a the middle of a pandemic and people the UK (obviously not all but a damn good chunk) have proven to be arseholes that can't follow the rules (you only have to see the threads on here) ...and you really wonder why things like Covid marshals are needed. (And the new laws only have a 2 year usage policy, they become null after that).

@KatherineJaneway I’m planning to, it’s more a case of when. She’s still young so I had planned to give a her a couple more years to catch it but with everything going on it seems like a better idea to move it forward

The thing is incompetence creates a void.

As PP said, we also have the proposed Hate Crime bill in Scotland, which will crush freedom of speech. Scot gov are now asking us all to install their new tracking app. We are assured it wont hold any of our data. As we say in Scotland, " Aye, right!"

Not a conspiracy theorist at all, but it terrifies me how many people are so willing to give up their freedoms

I totally agree with this point. I'm not a conspiracy theorist either. But it's so scary how easy it has been for the government (and not just ours, others too) to stir up such panic about this illness. People are prepared to comply with almost anything - the masks, the not meeting people, staying the house - that the government throws at them. A large number of people taking it upon themselves to act as the secret police and shop their neighbours for buying easter eggs, not wearing a mask or whatever else. Calling for the police/Army on the street, or a "proper lockdown" like they had in South Korea.

It's absolute madness. Of course the virus exists and yes we need to take precautions. But the rhetoric has moved from the entirely sensible "protect the NHS" into "nobody gets covid".

Anyone who questions whether new steps are really necessary is a "covidiot" or wants to murder their granny.

No it isn't. It's trying to cope with an unprecedented , global , pandemic with no effective treatment or vaccine. The alternative is a form of Russian Roulette with the virus spreading throughout the population unchecked.

I agree, SockYarn.

No - we are not in a police state or heading that way. The UK’s handling of the pandemic has been poor, if stricter restrictions had been in place from the start, and enforced, perhaps we would have less restrictions now. If people abuse the restrictions, there will be higher deaths and a longer period of changes to our normal lives.

This winter is going to be far worse. Normal flu season, potential increase in Covid cases and a no deal Brexit. We’ve seen nothing yet!

We don't have enough police to be 'policed'! What with all the Tory cuts...

Retaining DNA and fingerprints due to national security

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/973/made?view=plain

Perhaps you're the tinfoil hatter, ever considered that thought?

No you’re being ridiculous. We’re mid Pandemic that’s all and these measures are necessary as we don’t have other interventions yet eg vaccine/drugs.

Compare to France where there’s masks mandated in streets, huge fines 3000 euros for non compliance and proper policing (not policing by consent)

Honestly ridiculous thing to say re U.K.

Parker231

This winter is going to be far worse. Normal flu season, potential increase in Covid cases and a no deal Brexit. We’ve seen nothing yet

Please may I derail for just a second?

Please book your ‘flu jabs, they’re available now for late Sept., every little will help the big picture.

(I don’t work for big pharma - or Tesco . Just want everyone to get through this safely)