When do we end lockdowns and let people live a full life

[frasersmummy]

It's looking ever more likely more cities including Glasgow will go back into lockdown..

Mainly from what I can see to stop people meeting indoors

There has to come a point when mental health is as important as physical health.. Keeping loved ones apart does noones mental health any. Good

So where do we draw the line.. There has to be a point when lockdown is just wrong.

For me it's wrong now.. Enough of keeping friends and families apart

@MaxNormal

What are all these people who say they can't live a normal life actually missing?

A household income.

Is that permanent job loss? Is it an industry you'll find employment in easily?

This is definitely the hardest part for many.

Sleep yeah hospital appointments is a worrying one. Ds has his by phone in April and moved face to face for October. I'm worried about October because it's the time they predict second wave.

I've also missed the swim galas day participates in. It's a real big part of my social life because the swim parents become your friends when your child does a sport for a huge chick of their life.

You didnt break SD rules by helping that young girl. You did exactly the right thing. helping someone who is ill is not breaking the rules. 💐 on a separate note, it will be interesting to see how many of those taking the chances or ignoring the rules would feel the same if they knew someone who had died, been ill or is STILL ill. Having seen my dad very very scared, and at the height when only those pretty much near death got taken to hospital, there is now way I want this illness. You simply dont kn ow how your own body will react. We think my mum was asymptomatic but she is now having breathing issues now (in her mid 70s and issuing every excuse not to go to the doctors). Its a horrible illness for so many, and a horrible death too. I might get it so mildly I hardly know, but I might end up on a ventilator. I'm not that risk.

We need to start measuring the impact of Covid-19 in a new way now - years of life lost.

Initially we used the death rate. Now the death rate is extremely low, but restrictions are still in place that causing massive harm to the economy, jobs and mental health, possibly worse than the direct effect of Covid itself.

For example, if a 78 year old dies of Covid-19, who could have been expected to live to 82, that's 4 years of life lost. An 18 year old who takes their own life because of not getting the A-levels has lost 64 years of life.

The loss of jobs, education and opportunities is going to lead to a surge in poverty that will take years off the lives of millions of people in this country, and is going to far outweigh the direct impact of the virus.

The initial lockdowns were in response to the need to protect the ventilators, as we watched the Italian situation unfold. We were never completely overwhelmed in the same way in the UK.

It's unclear now what the end game is. If it's to eradicate the virus, that's never going to happen. The idea was to protect NHS beds, but now cases are at an all time low and routine activity has not really got going again, patients have had operations cancelled and the waiting lists are getting even longer.

My biggest concern is local lockdowns. Many of the upticks are in areas where there is already lots of poverty and deprivation. Oldham, one of the poorest towns in the UK was threatened with a local lockdown which could have closed businesses again. The damage would have been unfathomable.

Compared to the beginning stages, when there was no community testing whatsoever (only severe cases in hospital were tested) we are better placed to deal with this now. I think it very unlikely we will a second wave like the first now that anyone can get a test and with contact tracing of some form in place.

My suggestion would be a flexible reintroduction of shielding in areas with an uptick of cases, but to introduce it generically for all patients above a certain age - perhaps 65, and those with health conditions that were on the original shielded list. When there is a spike in cases, the shielded group would be advised to limit unnecessary travel, avoid indoor contact with other households, avoid gyms, restaurants and other high risk activities.

That would seem more sensible to me than shutting down whole areas.

My industry has been massively affected and many of my friends no longer have any work and are terrified of ending up homeless. People saying life is basically normal now haven’t considered actors, performers, musicians, and all the backstage crew whose lives are essentially still on hold and who have no idea when they’ll be able to work normally again.

Strict lockdown was absolute hell for me as I live alone. I was suicidal and can’t imagine I was the only one. What we’re living with now is shit and although personally I couldn’t care less about getting the virus, I will put up with these measures if it means we can avoid a full lockdown again. But I completely understand people who are desperate for actual normality to return, especially if they work in theatre or one of the other industries that has been decimated. For many of them it’s not about “luxuries,” it’s about survival.

@minnieok

To be honest I think many people stopped following "the rules" months ago. I'm seeing my kids and stayed with family and friends

That isn't necessarily breaking the rules, everything you mention is allowed as long as you socially distance from the other households you see.

[quote 1dayatatime]No opinion but just some late night number crunching:

Odds of an over 80 year old dying from Covid are currently 1 in 200
Odds of an over 80 year old dying anyway each year are 1 in 10.

Odds of an under 20 year old dying from Covid are currently 1 in 780,000
Odds of an under 20 year old dying anyway each year are 1 in 4,000

Sources: www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-daily-deaths/
www.statista.com/statistics/281174/uk-population-by-age/
www.bandolier.org.uk/booth/Risk/dyingage.html[/quote]
Indeed.

Death is shit. But it happens.

The lockdown lovers have lost all sense of proportion.

@Flaxmeadow

Seriously? This might be the funniest thing I have ever read.

You think this is funny? You think half a million deaths in a matter of a few weeks in the UK alone would be funny?

It wouldnt just be about the amount of people dying with no medical attention. There would also be many more very sick people needing the services. Services that would have collapsed under the strain

People aren’t dying of COVID in the UK in any volume (less than 100 in about the last week)

People aren't dying now because we have had lockdown but they will if we do not continue lockdowns. Why is this so hard to comprehend

Cases are up but that’s because they are doing more testing. Hospital admissions are down.

Again because of lockdowns. Don't forget many people are still shielding

Seriously open the country back up and let the kids have a proper and normal education

I agree, but only because children are at a much lower risk. But it has to be done in a considered way and if the cases start rising again then it has to be full lockdown again

It isnt going away anytime soon

I appreciate we can’t open up everything right away as normal now but your last sentence is exactly why we mustn’t have another lockdown. Schools must never close again. The only thing that has come from that is harm.

I have read all these replies and it's apparently clear that one size doesn't fit all..

For me in my circumstances... Dh died very suddenly at 47.I just want to say to my dad ffs something could happen to you tomorrow thats not covid and you haven't hugged us in months...

I want to go to my friends birthday parties and weddings. I want to go back to my work and be busy and see loads of people every day

I know so many of you will call me shallow and selfish

But I just want to live life to the full while I can.. Cos who knows what's round the corner

So yeah lockdown was horrendous and I don't think I could bear it again..

I understand that for other people this is frightening

I don't know what the proper answer is but for me.. Its get the country open and let us live while we can

So fuck everyone else, screw trying to protect anyone and just let it Murder and Maim, because.......you don't like how your life has changed?

It's not about you, or me, it's about EVERYONE, collectively as a group.

I'm confused what's not open now? I am at work, kids off to school this week. I can go to any shop, pub, restaurant. My husband works abroad and is away now working. Besides masks and a few restrictions I don't get the problem. It's maybe a year in our lifetime just do it.

So fuck everyone else, screw trying to protect anyone and just let it Murder and Maim

But we’re not trying to protect everyone, are we? In trying to protect from the (not actually enormous) threat from Covid, we’re throwing plenty of others to the wolves for all sorts of reasons.

kitcat read the fricking thread.

I don’t think there are many worse ways of dying at 80, than dying alone in a hospital and saying goodbye to your loved ones via Zoom.

There’s a shifting narrative here. From the vulnerable need to shield and the rest of us crack on, to the vulnerable now being selfish, and that they were going to die before long anyway (once people grasp intertwined society is, and that isolating them means sacrifices for their families etc).

Even Sweden is telling over 70s not to go into other family members’ houses (walks are fine).

I’m not sure how government suddenly stopping lockdown and saying everything is back to normal, would make your dad anymore comfortable with being around your son? If he has risk assessed the situation himself and would rather distance, that’s okay and it’s his choice and right to do that. Bit awful to selfishly want him to put himself at risk to see your son, for your peace of mind.

@amusedtodeath1

So fuck everyone else, screw trying to protect anyone and just let it Murder and Maim, because.......you don't like how your life has changed?

It's not about you, or me, it's about EVERYONE, collectively as a group.

But it’s OK because we’ll clap for the exhausted and sick healthcare workers for five minutes once a week. Which is exactly what would happen if OP’s vision is realised (large weddings and parties, unlimited socialising, end of all distancing and makes).

The heartless sweeping binary assumptions I see on here make me question humanity. They really do. You don’t sound clever or insightful, you skins callous.

Sound

@tittysprinkles

We need to start measuring the impact of Covid-19 in a new way now - years of life lost.

Initially we used the death rate. Now the death rate is extremely low, but restrictions are still in place that causing massive harm to the economy, jobs and mental health, possibly worse than the direct effect of Covid itself.

For example, if a 78 year old dies of Covid-19, who could have been expected to live to 82, that's 4 years of life lost. An 18 year old who takes their own life because of not getting the A-levels has lost 64 years of life.

The loss of jobs, education and opportunities is going to lead to a surge in poverty that will take years off the lives of millions of people in this country, and is going to far outweigh the direct impact of the virus.

The initial lockdowns were in response to the need to protect the ventilators, as we watched the Italian situation unfold. We were never completely overwhelmed in the same way in the UK.

It's unclear now what the end game is. If it's to eradicate the virus, that's never going to happen. The idea was to protect NHS beds, but now cases are at an all time low and routine activity has not really got going again, patients have had operations cancelled and the waiting lists are getting even longer.

My biggest concern is local lockdowns. Many of the upticks are in areas where there is already lots of poverty and deprivation. Oldham, one of the poorest towns in the UK was threatened with a local lockdown which could have closed businesses again. The damage would have been unfathomable.

Compared to the beginning stages, when there was no community testing whatsoever (only severe cases in hospital were tested) we are better placed to deal with this now. I think it very unlikely we will a second wave like the first now that anyone can get a test and with contact tracing of some form in place.

My suggestion would be a flexible reintroduction of shielding in areas with an uptick of cases, but to introduce it generically for all patients above a certain age - perhaps 65, and those with health conditions that were on the original shielded list. When there is a spike in cases, the shielded group would be advised to limit unnecessary travel, avoid indoor contact with other households, avoid gyms, restaurants and other high risk activities.

That would seem more sensible to me than shutting down whole areas.

Weighing lives in this way is unethical.

The more impatient people are , the more they use their mental health as an excuse ( sorry but lots of people do ) , the less distancing people manage ,the longer this goes on

@amusedtodeath1

So fuck everyone else, screw trying to protect anyone and just let it Murder and Maim, because.......you don't like how your life has changed?

It's not about you, or me, it's about EVERYONE, collectively as a group.

Do you drive a car? Use fossil fuels? Cos collectively we are killing people through climate change. Are you as keen to make those sorts of drastic changes?

But we have to do it some way as we can't protect or save everyone. At the mine R we are choosing to protect people from COVID-19 at the expense of those suffering from mental illness linked to isolation, redundancy, domestic abuse. We are also choosing to prioritise Covid-19 patients over those with cancer and other diseases- it has been clearly stated mnay people will die from treatable conditions because treatment or diagnosis was delayed during lockdown. So already we are weighing lives.

@BaconandWaffles

My industry has been massively affected and many of my friends no longer have any work and are terrified of ending up homeless. People saying life is basically normal now haven’t considered actors, performers, musicians, and all the backstage crew whose lives are essentially still on hold and who have no idea when they’ll be able to work normally again.

Strict lockdown was absolute hell for me as I live alone. I was suicidal and can’t imagine I was the only one. What we’re living with now is shit and although personally I couldn’t care less about getting the virus, I will put up with these measures if it means we can avoid a full lockdown again. But I completely understand people who are desperate for actual normality to return, especially if they work in theatre or one of the other industries that has been decimated. For many of them it’s not about “luxuries,” it’s about survival.

Until there is a vaccine or effective treatment, who is going to pile into a crowded theatre? Cinemas may not survive operating below capacity, there’s no way most live stage shows will be financially viable with reduced demand.

Too many people are blaming the lockdown for a problem that is actually caused by the virus. SARS CoV2 whether you like it or not is a virus spread by breathing, talking, and coughing and makes many people quite ill, and some dangerously ill.

Personally there’s no amount of money that would have me voluntarily in any crowded indoor venue especially come winter. So that is very sad for people who work in theatre, live events, etc but it’s not because of the government.

Personally there’s no amount of money that would have me voluntarily in any crowded indoor venue especially come winter.

Yes me too.

Do you drive a car? Use fossil fuels? Cos collectively we are killing people through climate change. Are you as keen to make those sorts of drastic changes?

Personally we have made these changes. But I'm not a fan of whataboutery.

The behaviour of my neighbours with regard to the virus is very direct and immediate in terms of potential harm in my community. This is especially so with colleagues or classmates.

@itsgettingweird self employed DH, events industry which is now a smoking ruin, several large companies have just gone bust.
I cant even contribute due to disability.