When do we end lockdowns and let people live a full life

[frasersmummy]

It's looking ever more likely more cities including Glasgow will go back into lockdown..

Mainly from what I can see to stop people meeting indoors

There has to come a point when mental health is as important as physical health.. Keeping loved ones apart does noones mental health any. Good

So where do we draw the line.. There has to be a point when lockdown is just wrong.

For me it's wrong now.. Enough of keeping friends and families apart

@Flaxmeadow

AlecTrevelyan006 Perhaps the risk averse should be more respectful of those who are content to accept the (tiny) risk that they might suffer serious illness if they catch coronavirus?

Tbh I’ve gone way past caring whether I catch it or not and I suspect many people feel the same way

It isnt about you or anyone catching the virus or your risk. It's about saving the NHS and other services. How would you feel if you, or someone close to you, needed a hospital, for the virus or something else, and there wasnt one available because they had all collapsed under the strain. Or needed a social worker, or a police officer. How would you feel about people crawling out of their home and dying in the streets because they had no ambulance and nowhere left to go and no one would touch them or comfort them because there is no PPE left in the shops

Sorry but this is serious, and no govenrment on earth would tank their economy with lockdowns if it wasn't

Seriously? This might be the funniest thing I have ever read.

People aren’t dying of COVID in the UK in any volume (less than 100 in about the last week)

Cases are up but that’s because they are doing more testing. Hospital admissions are down.

Seriously open the country back up and let the kids have a proper and normal education

@AlecTrevelyan006

Perhaps the risk averse should be more respectful of those who are content to accept the (tiny) risk that they might suffer serious illness if they catch coronavirus?

Tbh I’ve gone way past caring whether I catch it or not and I suspect many people feel the same way

That's great that you don't care. Perhaps you are fortunate enough to not have to care?

I haven't seen my family in months. Why? I am not vulnerable, but my husband is. A few babies were born this year and one of the mums does a full weekly circuit of all my close family so that her baby 'can know everyone'. She just turns up as if we were in normal times. As a result, I can't risk seeing any of them, even the ones who themselves are trying to limit contact but feel bad turning this family member away (they too are starting to feel as if this Covid thing is overblown, despite my mum having it and being bed bound for a month).

My baby was also born, who does he know? In trying to not hurt this girl's feelings, her baby/herself would be superspreaders if they ever came into contact with it. It's great everyone can act normally, but do not chide others for trying to avoid COVID.

Simple answer - I don't know when normal life will resume - does anyone?

Seriously? This might be the funniest thing I have ever read.

You think this is funny? You think half a million deaths in a matter of a few weeks in the UK alone would be funny?

It wouldnt just be about the amount of people dying with no medical attention. There would also be many more very sick people needing the services. Services that would have collapsed under the strain

People aren’t dying of COVID in the UK in any volume (less than 100 in about the last week)

People aren't dying now because we have had lockdown but they will if we do not continue lockdowns. Why is this so hard to comprehend

Cases are up but that’s because they are doing more testing. Hospital admissions are down.

Again because of lockdowns. Don't forget many people are still shielding

Seriously open the country back up and let the kids have a proper and normal education

I agree, but only because children are at a much lower risk. But it has to be done in a considered way and if the cases start rising again then it has to be full lockdown again

It isnt going away anytime soon

Desperado, if we open up, so presumably including house parties, festivals, open visiting in care homes and hospitals, no masks etc, what exactly are you expecting to happen? Do you think cases (and hospitalisations and deaths) would remain where they are now, or increase? If you agree with me they would increase, what do you think would happen to nhs services?

What are all these people who say they can't live a normal life actually missing?

A household income.

I have followed all the guidelines, I support the measures in place. HOWEVER, it never ceases to amaze me the complete lack of understanding or empathy on these threads for mental illness.

I have not coped well with lockdown, my mental health has seriously suffered and I have been in crisis several times. This has impacted the mental health of my dh and my children, one of whom has ASD and has found the whole period equally challenging.

For my children, siblings, parents and friends my death has been far more real a prospect from mental illness than covid. Sorry, for not being able to suck it up and get a grip enough for some of you.

@MaxNormal

What are all these people who say they can't live a normal life actually missing?

A household income.

I'm missing proper support for my ASD child, a single minute of my day not taken up with work, housework or managing a violent meltdown from said child or protecting my other child from this.

I'm missing seeing my family who live a distance away and have been shielding. My ASD child will not travel (or even leave the house at the moment) so seeing them has been infrequent. I miss the occasional respite offered by a few select familyembers to help me deal with this chaotic life I have to live.

I miss sitting with friends at book club, drinking wine and discussing books and life. Many friends like me have work in the evenings due to childcare during the day. Due to the escalation in my child's behaviour (caused by school closure and lockdown) there is no one to babysit and even dh and I cannot do evenings alone.

This is not living it is existing. If my chikdren are not able to go to school regularly (looks unlikely for school refusing ASD child) then covid will kill me, because it will be too much and I will kill myself. I cannot live like this much longer, I am having on bya thread.

People aren't dying now because we have had lockdown but they will if we do not continue lockdowns. Why is this so hard to comprehend

I think because the alternative of ‘the virus has just decided to stop now and we could all go back to our normal lives if only the awful governments would let us’ is much more reassuring. Total bollocks, but reassuring.

(Also some people are just really fucking selfish and don’t actually care who dies now they’ve worked out it probably won’t be them.)

As for how long we can expect people to put up with this - I would be very surprised if there isn’t a vaccine proven to work before the end of the year. We have three vaccine candidates which should have enough evidence by then, and a lot more coming up behind them. Chances that they’ll all fail are at this point really very slim.

@BreathlessCommotion I'm so sorry, its utter shit isn't it? And then to just have that dismissed as no big deal.
Its the not knowing... if someone could just give us a timeline I think it would help. But the fact that we just have to carry on like this with no end date, no end goal. Its mental torture.

We’ll go into regional lockdowns again. So what. All it’s doing is accelerating the painful slow death of the high street - but who goes shopping for tat - people with knack all else to do.

See family - no thanks - it’s been lovely not having to be the dutiful family.

I did miss the foreign holiday this year - I will say that but it’s hardly a hardship.

Bring the schools back and keep the rest of it distanced until we have a vaccine.

Breathless I posted about MH at 23.03 on page 3 of this thread.
About the desperate need (which existed long before coronavirus) for better MH services. Quicker access to better treatments. Because you're right. Sadly for too long too few cared about mental illness. Hopefully the spotlight on MH brought about by Covid will change this. We need things to change because, as well as those suffering from the failure to do as NZ and Aus did (tackle the pandemic so life could return to normal), we'll also need to support those with MH needs arising from trauma (bereavement or working with Covid patients), and the psychological impact of having a chronic illness (Long Covid). Perhaps we could finally also tackle two of the biggest causes of suicide. Benefit 'reforms' and homelessness.

[quote MaxNormal]@BreathlessCommotion I'm so sorry, its utter shit isn't it? And then to just have that dismissed as no big deal.
Its the not knowing... if someone could just give us a timeline I think it would help. But the fact that we just have to carry on like this with no end date, no end goal. Its mental torture.[/quote]
I have a timeline.
If we do as NZ and Aus are doing.
One to two months lockdown (only if necessary) and strict border restrictions (6-12 months until mass availability of vaccine).

So, borders closed aside, we could have a pretty normal life back in one to two months. If we wanted.

@itsgettingweird

What are all these people who say they can't live a normal life actually missing?

In past 4 weeks I've met family for meals for birthdays. Been to beach. Had bbq with family. Met various friend for a coffee/lunch. Taken da swim training a few times a week with his club. Been to a theme lark. Been to supermarket and been to town.

Ok, have to wear a mask, social distance etc.

But I don't feel I have restrictions on my life as such. There are restrictions on how we do these activities though.

I just don't let that be my focus.

Had my tickets for the theatre cancelled, kids had their theatre show cancelled too. No festivals. Can't even get together for training for my volunteer work as we can't have 100 starting together for the weekend in close proximity (communal dining hall / dorms etc).
Can't walk my child to the door at school. No book club because we're too many households. Most of sons hospital appts cancelled.

For family,
Jobs lost meaning can't move house
No big sporting events.

I don’t think she’ll do a full lockdown in Glasgow but really, if people can’t follow the rules when meeting in each other’s houses what do they expect.

One thing that has been clear to me these last few months is that if people follow the rules you can get a fair degree of freedom. Yet all I see on FB is people with lots of friends round, all cramming together for selfies etc. I’ve only seen my family either outside at a considerable distance or 2m apart and have stuck to the numbers. If people can’t do this they have no one to blame but themselves if restrictions are reimposed. Idiotic behaviour.

And I find it as shit as anyone. I’ve been on medication for my mental health for 6 months. My dad missed out on cancer treatment. My kids have missed out on school for months including a crucial transition. My husband didn’t work for months and his sector is volatile. I lost my job (just got another thankfully). Ignoring the rules isn’t going to make any of it better.

@frasersmummy

It's looking ever more likely more cities including Glasgow will go back into lockdown..

Mainly from what I can see to stop people meeting indoors

There has to come a point when mental health is as important as physical health.. Keeping loved ones apart does noones mental health any. Good

So where do we draw the line.. There has to be a point when lockdown is just wrong.

For me it's wrong now.. Enough of keeping friends and families apart

This. It's now been nearly six months.

How much longer?? This is cruel.

I've got a life to lead but at the moment I'm just wishing the time away.

No opinion but just some late night number crunching:

Odds of an over 80 year old dying from Covid are currently 1 in 200
Odds of an over 80 year old dying anyway each year are 1 in 10.

Odds of an under 20 year old dying from Covid are currently 1 in 780,000
Odds of an under 20 year old dying anyway each year are 1 in 4,000

Sources: www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-daily-deaths/
www.statista.com/statistics/281174/uk-population-by-age/
www.bandolier.org.uk/booth/Risk/dyingage.html

I'm realising how actually unsociable I am. Once the dc are back at school I'm pretty much back to normal apart from having no job to go too and still adhering to most guidelines in terms of how many people I can see and where. Theres nothing that I used to do that I can't do now. Im very much a home bird with a small circle.
New years resolution for me is to get a life, go more places and see more people.

We either deal with it properly - with temporary strict measures for one-two months, or it just drags on and on and on.

But what you've described in South Australia is a "temporary" lockdown dragging on and on, with only permanent residents allowed in. Do you think that can be maintained indefinitely? As soon as those measures are lifted, cases will be on the rise again. This has been shown everywhere. Lockdown does nothing but delay the process and causes a host of other issues into the bargain. The end result is still the same - we need to learn to live with this virus that same as we do with all the others that kill people every single year.

This. It's now been nearly six months.

How much longer?? This is cruel.

I've got a life to lead but at the moment I'm just wishing the time away.

Perhaps you should just email the virus, Kittens, and let it know how cruel it is and you've got stuff to get on with__ like everyone else in the entire world.

It shouldn’t have started to be honest. The virus will always have to circulate. So we embrace that now or when the economy has completely tanked.

I’m abroad but all my friends and colleagues in the UK seem to have had lovely summers including some who took trips abroad. If new lockdowns come then it would be frustrating but it’s not like it’s been unending boredom at home since March.

Tbf any medic who’s never considered the possibility (probability?) if a pandemic - likely one FAR worse than this, or has not yet reconciled themselves with death needs to wake up and smell the coffee.

As a medically vulnerable MH-tightrope-walking self-employed single mum, does my life not matter?

I’d rather Rishi bunged us free wills than burgers.

Some of us (you) need to come to terms with death because it’s coming for us all.

I broke SD “rules” a few weeks ago when a neighbour collapsed. Turned out to be sepsis. She’s young, slim and healthy. Luckily she’s fine - the GP who came to the house looked terrified. People need to get perspective.

@AlecTrevelyan006

Perhaps the risk averse should be more respectful of those who are content to accept the (tiny) risk that they might suffer serious illness if they catch coronavirus?

Tbh I’ve gone way past caring whether I catch it or not and I suspect many people feel the same way

My husband and I feel the same way.