When do we end lockdowns and let people live a full life

[frasersmummy]

It's looking ever more likely more cities including Glasgow will go back into lockdown..

Mainly from what I can see to stop people meeting indoors

There has to come a point when mental health is as important as physical health.. Keeping loved ones apart does noones mental health any. Good

So where do we draw the line.. There has to be a point when lockdown is just wrong.

For me it's wrong now.. Enough of keeping friends and families apart

@Flaxmeadow

But for the most part, this virus does not kill the majority of people it strikes.

There's nothing fuckwitted about that fact.

The lockdowns are to protect the NHS.

Well it worked

so now the NHS can back to protecting us, which is the reason it was established

It's not just about death. If people are concerned about mental health, they might like to consider the psychological impact of suffering from a chronic illness. It's pretty devastating to the MH. For the sufferer and their families.

All we need to do is follow the excellent example of NZ and Australia. Take firm action to nip it in the bud and then you're able to live life pretty normally, albeit with temporary closed borders. Considering last year we saw large-scale protests and schools strikes over climate change concern, supported by the media, large companies, and governments, there's a major silver lining to be had by (temporarily) restricting borders. Like NZ and Australia, we have the advantage Europe does not. We are an island.

@Oly4

But why aren’t there any admissions due to a Covid? Because people are for the most part behaving. If we stop they will go up dramatically. It’s simple?

How do you/we know that? Its not ripping through other countries where people live literally on top of each other like it was predicted.

Open stuff up, let us have our lives back, see what happens.

Monitor carefully and if it becomes an issue then lock stuff down again.

If people are vulnerable and/or nervous and want to stay at home while its tried then let them

The NHS are fine. There are barely any hospital admissions at the moment due to COVID and pretty much everything else is shutdown.

The only reason the NHS is fine is because we had lockdowns and we are still in lockdown.

What do you think would have happened without lockdown? This virus would have killed hundreds of thousands of people within a matter of weeks, and potentially, without lockdown, it still could.

What then? We wouldn't have an NHS

@Flaxmeadow

The NHS are fine. There are barely any hospital admissions at the moment due to COVID and pretty much everything else is shutdown.

The only reason the NHS is fine is because we had lockdowns and we are still in lockdown.

What do you think would have happened without lockdown? This virus would have killed hundreds of thousands of people within a matter of weeks, and potentially, without lockdown, it still could.

What then? We wouldn't have an NHS

Hundreds of thousands - based on what? It hasnt done that anywhere in the world ffs

@itsgettingweird

What are all these people who say they can't live a normal life actually missing?

In past 4 weeks I've met family for meals for birthdays. Been to beach. Had bbq with family. Met various friend for a coffee/lunch. Taken da swim training a few times a week with his club. Been to a theme lark. Been to supermarket and been to town.

Ok, have to wear a mask, social distance etc.

But I don't feel I have restrictions on my life as such. There are restrictions on how we do these activities though.

I just don't let that be my focus.

So because you aren't personally effected, you are really unable to grasp that everyone isn't like you or in your set of circumstances and some people are incredibly effected by this? A lot of people, for example, have completely lost their livelihoods and are in serious danger of homelessness.

What's good for one person's mental health isn't necessarily good for another's.
For me, seeing cases on the rise, and my son about to enter into a bubble of 180 kids, that's not doing my mental health any good. Seeing photos on Facebook of friends who have clearly given up all thoughts of social distancing, that's not good for my mental health.
Worrying I might catch it and what effect it might have on me (I am clinically vulnerable) is not good for my mental health. Neither is worrying what will happen to my sister's boys if she gets it and isn't able to look after them (single parent, clinically vulnerable).
Worrying that we might give it to mum, my mother in law, my son's best friend (all vulnerable or shielding) so considering if we will be able to see them at all now schools are going back, also not good for my mental health.
The restrictions need to stay for the foreseeable, unfortunately.

Hundreds of thousands - based on what?

Based on all the scientific evidence and that, half a million deaths in the UK (without lockdown), is a conservation estimate

It hasnt done that anywhere in the world ffs

It has actually, but then the world has been in lockdown too

What do you think would have happened without lockdown?

All we need to do is follow the excellent example of NZ and Australia. Take firm action to nip it in the bud and then you're able to live life pretty normally, albeit with temporary closed borders.

They are far from doing that and in some areas it's nigh on a police state. There's nothing good about their so-called examples.

Desperado24
Open stuff up, let us have our lives back, see what happens.

That's what been happening

Monitor carefully and if it becomes an issue then lock stuff down again.

That's what will happen

We were told all this back in March at length, not just in the UK but across the world . It's called a rolling lockdown. Heavy lockdown, then lighter lockdown and repeat

It's a balance between saving the health services and saving the economy. They cant stop the virus killing people, the lockdowns are to protect the health services. Flatten the curve so they can cope over a longer period of time

It's not ripping through other countries where people literally live on top of each other

India. Brazil. Just to name two. Check out their number of cases and death rates.

Hospitals not overwhelmed?
It was reported just a few days ago how South Korea has concerns over potential bed shortages. And don't you remember Italy in March? So many died because their hospitals were full - beds full up with 30 and 40 somethings.

Ignoring it? Bad idea. Ongoing restrictions to everyday life? Not good either. So that leaves the third way. The option particularly available to islands. The NZ and Australia way. Temporary lockdown if need be (one to two months) then strict border restrictions (to be lifted once vaccine can be widely distributed). All sorted. Life pretty normal.

@Flaxmeadow

Hundreds of thousands - based on what?

Based on all the scientific evidence and that, half a million deaths in the UK (without lockdown), is a conservation estimate

It hasnt done that anywhere in the world ffs

It has actually, but then the world has been in lockdown too

What do you think would have happened without lockdown?

You think the whole world has been in lockdown?

Bangladesh, Mongolia, Cambodia etc? The slums in Mexico? Really

Well, clearly you're not able to imagine what other people might be missing then, itsgetting, which shouldn't be terribly difficult. Life has always had tough choices for most people, it's how it goes.

@InDeoEstMeaFiducia

All we need to do is follow the excellent example of NZ and Australia. Take firm action to nip it in the bud and then you're able to live life pretty normally, albeit with temporary closed borders.

They are far from doing that and in some areas it's nigh on a police state. There's nothing good about their so-called examples.

I have family in Australia and extended family in NZ. The vast majority of the public across both countries are very supportive of their measures. You can look up some of their opinion polls if you don't believe me, or do a search for some of the posts we've had on here from people living there.

It's no police state, nor is it a failing method. NZ had a small outbreak a few weeks ago in Auckland. It's reopening now as it's already back under control. Melbourne too is getting it's outbreak under control. Unlike a police state, life is returning to normal, much more so than here.

If this virus were targetting children instead of older people and vulnerable people, would you all still say that mental health is more important, death is a part of life et cetera?

If not then why are vulnerable people worth less to you? Surely that's awful discrimination?

Desperado24

It hasnt done that anywhere in the world ffs

Done what? I'm not sure what you mean
Do you mean the virus hasnt killed hundreds of thousands of people globally? It has.
Or do you mean in a country?

You think the whole world has been in lockdown?

Yes pretty much

Bangladesh, Mongolia, Cambodia etc The slums in Mexico? Really

Yes they have taken lockdown measures

@rorosemary

If this virus were targetting children instead of older people and vulnerable people, would you all still say that mental health is more important, death is a part of life et cetera?

If not then why are vulnerable people worth less to you? Surely that's awful discrimination?

Also, Long Covid is actually targeting younger people. Not necessarily children but certainly young previously healthy adults.

@frasersmummy

I get ending lockdown doesn't mitigate the physical risk.. But it mitigates the mental risk for all of us..which I think is a greater risk at the moment

So NS announces lockdown is over forever, go forth and lock strnagers Your Dad is now immediately happy to hug your son who is mixing with X hundred pupils . Are you ok with that and the risk that poses to him?

What's up with people calling for normality to return, citing low case/death rates as justification? If we went back to normal, then this increases the transmission rate, R number rising, insert endless loop. People like the OP's father are protecting themselves from harm, and in doing so, they are not contributing to cases, hospitalisations or deaths. We should be supportive of them.

Boris selling normality doesn't make the virus any less dangerous for vulnerable people. People don't want to die. Stop taking issue with the risk aversion of others, especially if the risk is not the same for you

@JayDot500

What's up with people calling for normality to return, citing low case/death rates as justification? If we went back to normal, then this increases the transmission rate, R number rising, insert endless loop. People like the OP's father are protecting themselves from harm, and in doing so, they are not contributing to cases, hospitalisations or deaths. We should be supportive of them.

Boris selling normality doesn't make the virus any less dangerous for vulnerable people. People don't want to die. Stop taking issue with the risk aversion of others, especially if the risk is not the same for you

Bit the oft cited mantra on here is that the vulnerable should be the only ones locked away. Lock up the frail, elderly and medically vulnerable and let all the nice normal people get on with it. Sure a few will die here and there but that's ok cos it'll be someone else, and the vulnerable can just stay hidden. Sure it doesn't matter if they can't work, can't care for their loved ones, can't go to school, don't see another person for months on end. They're the lockable minority that are ruining people's nice fun lives

Perhaps the risk averse should be more respectful of those who are content to accept the (tiny) risk that they might suffer serious illness if they catch coronavirus?

Tbh I’ve gone way past caring whether I catch it or not and I suspect many people feel the same way

@InDeoEstMeaFiducia

Well, clearly you're not able to imagine what other people might be missing then, itsgetting, which shouldn't be terribly difficult. Life has always had tough choices for most people, it's how it goes.

I'm just asking. Nothing wrong with asking what people are missing.

But for someone who claims I'm not considering others MH by asking you've done a great job of making me feel like more shit.

As if my ds being diagnosed with a genetic neurological condition, my dad having cancer whilst mum also has cancer which is now terminal, my job being at risk as well as all this Covid shit. I just needed to hear that me trying to have some resemblance of a life within the guidance is also wrong.

@AlecTrevelyan006

Perhaps the risk averse should be more respectful of those who are content to accept the (tiny) risk that they might suffer serious illness if they catch coronavirus?

Tbh I’ve gone way past caring whether I catch it or not and I suspect many people feel the same way

Exactly

Like I said up thread - had it - barely noticed. None of those in close contact to me were infected.

We had much higher levels of testing at that time than most of the rest of the world (including Uk)

A good chunk of those panicking have probably had it in their homes and not even noticed

AlecTrevelyan006
Perhaps the risk averse should be more respectful of those who are content to accept the (tiny) risk that they might suffer serious illness if they catch coronavirus?

Tbh I’ve gone way past caring whether I catch it or not and I suspect many people feel the same way

It isnt about you or anyone catching the virus or your risk. It's about saving the NHS and other services. How would you feel if you, or someone close to you, needed a hospital, for the virus or something else, and there wasnt one available because they had all collapsed under the strain. Or needed a social worker, or a police officer. How would you feel about people crawling out of their home and dying in the streets because they had no ambulance and nowhere left to go and no one would touch them or comfort them because there is no PPE left in the shops

Sorry but this is serious, and no govenrment on earth would tank their economy with lockdowns if it wasn't