When do we end lockdowns and let people live a full life

[frasersmummy]

It's looking ever more likely more cities including Glasgow will go back into lockdown..

Mainly from what I can see to stop people meeting indoors

There has to come a point when mental health is as important as physical health.. Keeping loved ones apart does noones mental health any. Good

So where do we draw the line.. There has to be a point when lockdown is just wrong.

For me it's wrong now.. Enough of keeping friends and families apart

It’s a comparison of what happens with an infectious disease.

It’s beyond facetious to say oh but apparently it isn’t flu.

Personally I don't have a problem with not seeing anyone indoors until some time next year (excluding work). We don't live near family and are used to only seeing them 3-4 times a year and are happy to meetup outside for a walk. However, from reading these posts there are obviously people who struggle with this. Perhaps the way forward is for everyone who can cope to stick to the guidelines and limit indoor contact/ obey local lockdowns, so that there is more scope for those to struggle to have some indoor contact with friends and family. Everything is a balance to reduce transmission as much as possible.

But surely you don’t think that we’d all be having a fully enjoyable life right now if the government said “fuck it,

I have a feeling that people do want this.i would hope that most of us are in the middle ground, but I do think ones own vulnerability has much to do with how their opinions sway.

Meanwhile: metro.co.uk/2020/09/02/school-forced-to-delay-opening-first-day-pupils-catch-coronavirus-abroad-13211294/

Now, my original thought was 'this is excessive'. This normality attempt means that it's likely the kids had been in contact with other school mates before they tested positive. So fair play, the school is trying but I'm sure there are parents who feel this is ridiculous. Truth is, people are doing what they want, this is clearly evident on my FB and Instagram feeds. I certainly don't want another nationwide lockdown, but I certainly don't want anything like Brazil or Mexico. Or India right now.

@BreathlessCommotion

People/ the Government don't care about SEN children. I've got two and am nearing breaking point now.

The services that we rely on were nigh on non existent pre- covid and I would put money on the fact they won't recommence after it.

I also have experience of school refusal my kids are both educated at home now because of the fact that no school meets need and someone on another thread told me that I"m in a privileged position to have the choice to homeschool.

They have no fucking clue. Covid probably won't kill me but the lockdown and lack of services might well do.

There has to come a point when mental health is as important as physical health.. Keeping loved ones apart does noones mental health any. Good

But it isn't just about physical health, it's about people dying.

We need to learn to be a bit more mentally resilient. At the moment too many people are running towards the cliff edge shouting 'I'm immune to COVID, I don't need to SD!'. They forget that it isn't the running towards the cliff edge that kills you, it's falling off the cliff.

Apologies for not being mentally resilient enough.

Also that my 8 yr old daughter isn't mentally resilient enough to manage her ASD related anxiety that essentially cripples her.

Mental health resilience is always a good way to shift the respoeto the individual instead of looking at the root causes.

I'd like to hear your tips on becoming more resilient to living with someone who every day physically assaults you, screams and hurts themselves and their siblings.

Good grief Jaxhog , I'll tell my 14 year old autistic son that and my 11 year old autistic daughter, shall I?

How ableist can you actually be?

Breathless your daughter presents like my son. Have you tried PDA approaches, they have helped here, nothing is perfect but things are better.

I'm just behaving pretty much normally now, plus masks where you have to wear them. So are most people I see outside when I go to the pub, cinema, beach, supermarket, chip shop, etc. Our area has had an exceptionally busy summer season and no spike, I don't know a single soul who knows anyone who even thinks they might have had it so that obviously factors in to my decision. I think there are two camps, those who are going about life as normal and those who aren't and each side is fascinated by and can barely imagine being the other.

But it isn't just about physical health, it's about people dying.

People die. All the time.

Often in situations were we could have done far more to save them (road accidents/cancer/all the many diseases that ravage the developing world that we’re not sufficiently arsed about to fix.)

Covid is new and grabs headlines. That’s pretty much the only reason why we’ve decided to be so much more concerned with people dying of Covid than dying of anything else.

@GoldenOmber

It’s not true that those who did most to suppress it are the ones back to most normality now. Look at Spain, they had one of the harshest lockdowns and having re-opened are now raving more lockdowns because of sharp increases in cases again. Sweden is now doing quite well and they had one of the most relaxed, we in the UK are doing ok compared to others in Europe and ours was more relaxed than others.

Sweden had a lot more deaths than neighbouring countries Denmark and Norway and whether they did well is highly debatable. It depends if you think all those deaths was acceptable. Personally I would say no and those nations who tried to protect all their citizens have done better than Sweden.

@MrsMcMuffins

Sweden had a lot more deaths than neighbouring countries Denmark and Norway and whether they did well is highly debatable. It depends if you think all those deaths was acceptable. Personally I would say no and those nations who tried to protect all their citizens have done better than Sweden.

I didn’t say Sweden did the best overall, I said they are now doing well (compared to other countries) and despite a very relaxed approach from the beginning they are more back to normal than many others.

People die. All the time.

Wow! Just wow! So we just let them die, even when we can do a few simple things to make sure this is as few as possible? Does your 'MH' really trump my life??

@mertyey

I have the strong feeling that there are a large body of people who want this situation to last as long as possible so they can be judgemental of others, so others don't have a full enjoyment of life.

Yes, sounds a very rational explanation. Chris whitty for example, am sure his main motivation is stopping the little people enjoying themselves

Does your 'MH' really trump my life??

I haven’t mentioned my MH personally.

But the economic costs alone are staggering. And the impact that has on everyone. I wonder how people think we’re going to be able to pay for public services, including the NHS if we keep locking down when the numbers rise a bit?

Never in the history of the world have we devoted such resource to fighting a disease.

No one has died in scotland for two weeks.

Yes people in Glasgow can’t even meet loved ones.

Enough!!!!! This is utterly nonsensical

@Jaxhog is your life worth more because you are more resilient? Is your potential death from COVID-19 worse than my probable death from mh?

For someone who purports to care about people dying you are very dismissive of mental health.

@Jaxhog

People die. All the time.

Wow! Just wow! So we just let them die, even when we can do a few simple things to make sure this is as few as possible? Does your 'MH' really trump my life??

I think you are really asking a lot if you expect people to sacrifice their personal well being, either physical or mental health wise, for a person they have never met.
Millions of people have done a "few simple things" for months now, at some point they quite rightly are allowed to feel they have done enough.

And I will say for some people "few simple things" were not simple at all

@Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow

No one has died in scotland for two weeks.

Yes people in Glasgow can’t even meet loved ones.

Enough!!!!! This is utterly nonsensical

Firstly, there have been six deaths. This is low, agreed, but deaths have started to appear again in Scotland after a long run of days with no deaths.

www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-daily-data-for-scotland/

Secondly - if the infections in Glasgow were ignored,the numbers will only rise. It was 86 yesterday, this is significant and if the r rate is not held down, you can see this getting out of control in a few weeks.

The virus hasn't changed or gone away, sadly.

But the effect of the virus spreading again isn’t just that strangers you don’t have to worry about will die ()

Even if I only care about my self and say I am not much at risk from the virus - well, I am still at risk of not getting other healthcare if hospitals get overwhelmed with Covid cases. So are my family who had treatments and planned surgeries cancelled during lockdown. I am at risk of losing my job/mind if the schools and nurseries all shut for months again. I have a friend in the US in a state that’s been badly hit over summer, and her mental health is not doing very well right now at all.

The only scenario where we get mostly back to normal is by suppressing the virus as much as we can first, and/or wait a bit longer until the vaccine trial results start coming through.

The virus hasn't changed

That’s not true.

We know that a mutation exists and is in circulation. There’s growing scientific speculation (though no concrete proof yet) that this mutation is less deadly. The data coming out of Europe right now in terms of fatality rates would seem to back that up (though there are other factors contributing there too).

There’s lots of unknowns, but the fact that a mutation is in circulation is proven.

well, I am still at risk of not getting other healthcare if hospitals get overwhelmed with Covid cases

The hospitals are extremely far from being overwhelmed by Covid cases right now.

I’m not advocating ‘open everything up’ by any means, but we can certainly afford to relax further if our main concern is not overwhelming the NHS.

The hospitals are extremely far from being overwhelmed by Covid cases right now.

Yes! Which is good! Let’s keep it that way!