First School Closure in Scotland

[FlySheMust]

metro.co.uk/2020/08/24/coronavirus-outbreak-shuts-school-17-staff-two-pupils-test-positive-13169219/?fbclid=IwAR3hIqGrO5MDwKgBrRiQsvlOchvOv8umJ52_ZdIQlyTMn4jLhVRf3aw-Wpc

Makes "safe to open" look a bit silly.

@Vinoonasunnyday

I don’t gwt the paranoia about asymptomatic people transmitting virus

People who are asymptomatic are not tested because their viral load is so low it leads to negative tests

That’s the reason nhs guidelines state not to get tested

Therefore why do we think these people are passing the virus on if they aren’t even showing positive on an internal swab!

Utter rubbish.

The massive outbreaks in Swindon were only found because a workplace tested staff off their own backs. Many of the cases in XPO were asymptomatic. Hence why it spread like wildfire in the factories and supermarkets around the area.

What you’ve said is government spun propaganda. To convince everyone that’s true as they can not afford/have the resources to routine test.

Asymptomatic spread certainly does happen, which would explain why so many teachers have it and students don’t. If they don’t have symptoms they won’t be tested.

@Vinoonasunnyday

Not actively trying to blame teachers but as a teacher myself who has met colleagues etc outside work over the last month or two, I can tell you not one has been socially distancing

No adults I know are socially distancing

So why do people presume teachers are doing this in the workplace?

Literally no one seems to be distancing anymore at work you only have to walk round shops, cafes, play centres, offices etc

All normal

But the government haven't posted to say supermarket staff must be careful on coffee breaks and outside shop, or factory staff or anyone else that I've seen.

In fact they want staff wfh to return to use coffee shops etc. They don't want teachers using them during lunchtime due to risk.

If there was any consistency I think people would be more tolerant.

@Vinoonasunnyday

I don’t gwt the paranoia about asymptomatic people transmitting virus

People who are asymptomatic are not tested because their viral load is so low it leads to negative tests

That’s the reason nhs guidelines state not to get tested

Therefore why do we think these people are passing the virus on if they aren’t even showing positive on an internal swab!

Not true.

Recent outbreak at the sandwich factory all staff symptomatic were tested.

The company laid for tests for all staff. Iirc they found 78 asymptomatic cases. They tested positive which is how they know.

And also they know there are asymptomatic cases from the sheer fact since the beginning they've had positive tests for people showing no symptoms.

It's how the spread got out of control in hospitals and care homes.

Yeah this is it. They want people to go to work and use the lunchtime economy. They are literally chucking money at the trade so people do that.

Yet teachers can’t eat out (I know the time would be a fine thing). They have to be careful who they mix with or have coffee with. Why if schools are so safe? Maybe it’s because they know they aren’t, they know it will spread like wildfire. Yeah your kids will be fine, but the adults? Probably not. They know they can’t open schools with all the teachers off sick. There will also be no home learning provision in that case either.

I really want the kids to go back, but if people can’t see the writing on the wall, they are incredibly foolish. They are panicking that when the shit hits the fan and masses of teachers are off sick. Schools close again and staff cannot home teach either (due to sickness). They have no one to blame, so they’ll blame the teachers for taking a coffee break. You don’t even need to be the brightest of people to see that coming.

It already has.

in school for just over a week. Keeping my distance from the children. Windows open, door open. Desk sanitised, children wash hands and i constantly sanitise my hands so how come i have caught a cold? We are social distancing between staff in school and i have still caught it. I hae absolutely no faith that i wont catch it if its present. I am not reassured that i can get tested, i dont want to be in this position in the first place. I am 50 plus so not that young.

I had a child today come right up to my face to ask me something. He was little. This is what you have to deal with.

@itsgettingweird

Palace there is no evidence it's becoming less likely to cause serious illness. Age is a huge factor in hospitalisation . Alongside pre existing conditions.

Vulnerable staff haven't been in school yet. They are now.

Over 60 is a much higher risk. Most staff aren't this age.

But whether someone is asymptomatic or hospitalised if it's spreading through a school it'll close.

The closures is what we are discussing.

I'd totally disagree with that! If hospitalisations are going consistently down then it absolutely is relevant!

But hospitalisation are for the sickest and oldest generally. The science tells us who is most at risk.

If 500 people in a school get it and the school shuts that could be 2000 pupils not being educated.

How many are in hospital has no relevance.

Your just being deliberately obtuse.

Either that or you wish teachers and students to become really ill?

two of my children have symptoms .
Today in my part of Scotland tests have run out... the next date I can book is for Thursday 3 hours away.... I'm England..

tests are running out .

This particular school is quite obviously not following the guidelines. Clearly 17 members of staff won't have caught the virus from 2 pupils without any other pupils becoming infected if the guidance was being followed and such levels of infections amongst the staff population would suggest a high degree of transmission between staff members which simply shouldn't be possible if the guidance was being followed.

The guidance as it stands can't be followed to the degree it needs to be to stop outbreaks in any school, because there is no additional funding for spaces, cleaning materials or extra teachers.

But it seems like Jenny's idea to blame teachers for this has taken off with you!

What an ignorant thing to say.

Well the governments own guidance only says "where possible"

Maybe it wasn't possible. What are staff meant to do.

Other than hang their heads in shame and realise any cases in schools are all staff fault and they should have been vigilant outside of school. (See latest phe release and crap)

So
Not everyone exposwd gets ill
In a household the secondary attack is cant remember exactly may e 25-50% so if 17 infected those exposed will be a lot higher.
If 17-2 children were those just the symptomatic people. If so there could actually be more kids than adults carrying it.
Our school has maybe 28 teachers/ta. But if a SS has so many more staff to pupils and we know the staff do spread effectively. I know the guidance is different but how different. And considering it's not enough being done in any school.

If we assume teachers will be the main spreaders. They should definitely be in masks.
If the gov think you can stay 2m away from young kids then they have t met any.

A new study found that 39% of 8-13 year olds were Asymptomatic.

That’s a lot.

www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.08.18.20166835v1.full.pdf

Interesting study gail, thanks for posting. It is interesting that the 6 to 13 year old age group had the least symptoms and that asthma seems to lower susceptibility to covid, when you would assume the opposite.

Tests are running out cos Mumsnetters tell everyone with a headache to ‘get tested’.. it drives me insane. Get tested when you have symptoms. Not because you don’t feel very well.

I think you overestimate Mumsnet UK influence!

I've not had a test yet but I understand you normally have to confirm symptoms except in higher risk areas where anyone can get one whether they are Ill or not.

I would have hoped the government would anticipate more tests being needed when schools started going back too.....

My son’s special school was open all the way through. Once testing became more readily available the staff were and are tested regularly. He did stay home until May As it was doable for us and 2 teachers did test positive but there was no spread. All the staff have been wearing masks throughout.

Was it open fully @Gingerfish91? My son's special school was open but only too a very limited number of pupils .

@x2boys it’s residential so the 52 week children were there throughout. About 80% are 52 weeks. In the college part all the kids are 38 weeks. For the first 3 weeks most went home but after that they started bringing them back. All pupils were back except a small amount who either wanted to stay home or the day students in the school.

Ah right ,my son's is a non residential school ,I think I more concerned about the children mixing on transport ,the school has all kinds of protocols in place,but then all the children will be mixing on transport.

@itsgettingweird

But hospitalisation are for the sickest and oldest generally. The science tells us who is most at risk.

If 500 people in a school get it and the school shuts that could be 2000 pupils not being educated.

How many are in hospital has no relevance.

Your just being deliberately obtuse.

Either that or you wish teachers and students to become really ill?

Your logic is bonkers! So its not relevant that even though lots of people are being tested and numbers have increased in positive tests the fact that less people are getting a serious disease, less people are in hospital and less people are dying is not relevant? Does this not imply that the virus has mutated - that it is now less deadly than it was at first? If 500 people in a school get it as you suggest and 2000 people have to self isolate then you know what, with a bit of luck their school wont be shut again (if it is that contagious). Why is me pointing out that less people are getting this illness severely and less people are being treated in hospital me saying I want people to get ill??? Seriously, re-read it. Im simply saying for me that if you are talking about a school closing, lets see the actual repercussions of that before we use it as a reason not to open other schools. Schools are closed for Norovirus outbreaks. If no-one from that Scottish school is anymore ill than with that then surely the implication isnt "keep schools closed" its lets live with this, detect it and act swiftly when needed to prevent further spread.

Palace it's great less people are currently dying.

Shielded people have only been out for 3 weeks.

PahE surveillance shows the increase of infections is for 15-44 age group who are least at risk.

The numbers of over 65 who are infected has decreased and the over 85's is negliable. These are the people who generally die.

We'd all love for it to be becoming less fatal. But there is no scientific evidence this is so and a random MNer who wishes it so won't convince me or anybody else.

Regardless of how many are dying though it is ripping through factories and now schools.

This is having an effect on people's income and children's education.

So I personally do not think deaths being low makes the risk any lower.

I would honestly love to hear why you think just because factory and school staff aren't dying currently from Covid it's fine that these places are having outbreaks?

And I don't want want schools shit either btw. I want them open safely and to be able to stay open so children can access undisrupted education.

I don't want some students having a complete education and their counterparts having less. I don't want a gap to form for these pupils affecting their life choices and futures.

I don't think that's bonkers at all!

@neveradullmoment99

I had a child today come right up to my face to ask me something. He was little. This is what you have to deal with.

Seriously? What age do you teach? I am early primary and cannot imagine having this reaction over a small child approaching me to ask a question and I hope my 4 year olds teacher doesn't either. Are you seriously expecting to keep 2 metres apart from little children all year?