First School Closure in Scotland

[FlySheMust]

metro.co.uk/2020/08/24/coronavirus-outbreak-shuts-school-17-staff-two-pupils-test-positive-13169219/?fbclid=IwAR3hIqGrO5MDwKgBrRiQsvlOchvOv8umJ52_ZdIQlyTMn4jLhVRf3aw-Wpc

Makes "safe to open" look a bit silly.

@SD1978

All it really proves is poor social distancing among staff, and that they need better protocols in place. The kids weren't the issue/ staff not complying with guidelines is. It's true of many of the bigger outbreaks. I'm based in Australia and all our big hospital clusters have been linked back to the break room and poor social distancing, not patient care. This school outbreak demonstrates the same.

I don't think social distancing among staff is possible in an SEN school. Lots of children will have care needs that require 2 members of staff to be in close contact.

For example you could have a child of 15 who needs changing as her needs mean she is not able to control her toileting needs and so she wears nappies. Or you could have a 16 year old 6 foot tall child who struggles with emotional outbursts that put himself and others in danger and so he needs to be safely restrained and cared for. Also due to ratios many classrooms will have several adults in to provide care for the children. For the most severely disabled children you are likely to have 1:1 care.

@SD1978

All it really proves is poor social distancing among staff, and that they need better protocols in place. The kids weren't the issue/ staff not complying with guidelines is. It's true of many of the bigger outbreaks. I'm based in Australia and all our big hospital clusters have been linked back to the break room and poor social distancing, not patient care. This school outbreak demonstrates the same.

In my DCs school, the class sizes differ but for example they have 4 members of staff to 14 children. The size of the classrooms mean it is not possible to maintain social distancing and that's before you even get in to exactly what staff in special schools are doing/dealing with.

Not necessarily @SD1978 if it's a special school the chances are some children will need personal care, a lot of the pupils ( if my own son's school is anything to go by) might not understand the concept of social, distancing,and whilst my son's school have all kinds of protocols in place to stop children mixing to much in school ,that all goes to pot on school transport when all the children mix together.

Ds's class will have 12 children and 6 adults, no social distancing, and as others have pointed out the classroom would be too small for this anyway. Outside they will be in a bubble with the infant special needs class - 10 children and 6 adults...again no social distancing. They will wear PPE when supporting ds with his toileting, otherwise there will just be handwashing and gel.

@YetAnotherSpartacus

It will be the first of many.

Indeed 😢

All this shows is that test and trace is working... Also it looks like its teachers spreading it most likely through staffroom tea breaks.

Pointless post trying to scaremonger

If "one" school is closed (for reasons to do with who attends as well as covid) then how many schools are still open and currently unaffected? Why not focus on that? Of the school that has closed, how many of those affected are seriously ill? Are any in hospital? Why not look at all the evidence before thinking the worse. Ultimately of course there will be closures (its a virus) but if these happen swiftly we can still live with it. Whilst the hospital admissions continue to fall with all the openings we have seen I am choosing to stay postiive.

I’d be interested to know if any have been hospitalised. In England now we have 480 people in hospital. 56 of those are on ventilators out of 55 million people. We are at the lowest it’s ever been. One death yesterday. Above 90% have pre existing conditions and are over 60

We should not be closing schools again untill we see a rise in hospital admissions.

What's hospitalised got to do with it?

Whether teachers are in hospital or at home unless kids are teaching themselves they cannot open their class.

@Forgone90

All this shows is that test and trace is working... Also it looks like its teachers spreading it most likely through staffroom tea breaks.

Pointless post trying to scaremonger

Don't be so silly. Reporting the news is hardly scaremongering.

@FlySheMust

metro.co.uk/2020/08/24/coronavirus-outbreak-shuts-school-17-staff-two-pupils-test-positive-13169219/?fbclid=IwAR3hIqGrO5MDwKgBrRiQsvlOchvOv8umJ52_ZdIQlyTMn4jLhVRf3aw-Wpc

Makes "safe to open" look a bit silly.

A few kids testing positive doesn’t mean it’s not safe to open. Everyone always knew there would be cases in schools when they went back. They still need to open, but I agree there should be protection for the clinically vulnerable and contact tracing and testing is really important

Maybe if they'd been wearing masks the infection wouldn't have spread so much.

No point in schools opening only to close again days later. They should aim to stay open. More precautions needed, schools are not Corvid safe despite Johnson's lies.

@palacegirl77

You asked
'If "one" school is closed (for reasons to do with who attends as well as covid) then how many schools are still open and currently unaffected? Why not focus on that? Of the school that has closed, how many of those affected are seriously ill? Are any in hospital? Why not look at all the evidence before thinking the worse. Ultimately of course there will be closures (its a virus) but if these happen swiftly we can still live with it. Whilst the hospital admissions continue to fall with all the openings we have seen I am choosing to stay postiive.'

The reason is that doesn't fit the agenda of the pessimistic/fearful in society. Scaremongering is rife. There will be some outbreaks and some closures but some focus on the negatives and some try to weigh up negative/positive and see what the big picture is.

@Byallmeans

Indeed 100%

The reason is that doesn't fit the agenda of the pessimistic/fearful in society. Scaremongering is rife.

I repeat it isn't scaremongering to report the news.

There will be some outbreaks and some closures but some focus on the negatives and some try to weigh up negative/positive and see what the big picture is.

To focus on the negatives is to look at what went wrong and how it can be prevented another time. I want schools to stay open.

Not sure what your point is, on reflection.

@Forgone90

All this shows is that test and trace is working... Also it looks like its teachers spreading it most likely through staffroom tea breaks.

Pointless post trying to scaremonger

I don't know a school that has a staff room open for us to use actually; they have been closed to reduce this. Teachers are eating in their cars at my old school, at my current school all kitchen areas are closed so we have to bring a flask of hot water for the day and we eat whilst on duty outside or in our classroom. I've bought 2 new flasks, a cooler bag and a travel mug to still be able to have something reasonable.

@itsgettingweird

What's hospitalised got to do with it?

Whether teachers are in hospital or at home unless kids are teaching themselves they cannot open their class.

It’s got a lot to do with it. 80% of people will be largely unaffected by it or asymptomatic. We have spikes happening yet hospital admissions are falling week on week. We are down to one or two deaths now a day.

We should not be closing society down again when the figures are so low. There is Some compelling evidence coming from scientists in Singapore about a strain of COVID-19 that is causing milder infections.

This does fit with what we are seeing in terms of reduced hospital activity.

Byallmeans it's still irrelevant how seriously I'll the person with it is.

If it's spreading within a school community and teachers are sick schools will close. How sick makes no difference. They won't be working even if asymptomatic.

And once there is spread it can go and infect those who will end up in hospital.

Nurovirus doesn't hospitalise many people. Schools still close when it infects enough people.

Staff cannot socially distance at special schools, I cannot believe the rubbish that has been spouted by politicians today, that twat Dr Hilary said that children cannot transmit the virus easily, in the next breath he said that the over 11’s should wear masks. I knew teachers would get the blame somewhere along the line for spreading it.

Children at special schools cannot socially distance, most can’t wear masks, they cough and sneeze over each other, some are unable to say they feel unwell and vomit over themselves and whoever is nearby, ditto with diarrhoea, they need help with washing their hands, they need help with toileting, they need help washing their faces after lunch, they suck their fingers, they need their food cut up, some need medication given, some need feeding through a fucking tube. How can this be safe for all involved. It’s madness.

Some severe special needs schools (like my child’s) are no different to a care home for the elderly. The staff need to be allowed to wear PPE but then there’s the worry that it would scare some of the children. There doesn’t seem to be an answer for these schools to be able to open safely.

Why is there no discussion of the liklihood of transmission from the children to parents and grandparents?

There is much discussion about the impact on children and teachers but there must by now be some data on the extent to which these infections fuel household and community spread from schools which have been open for months in europe.

I know it's scary @Summersnearlyover, my son isn't medically vulnerable ,but he does have a rare chromosome disorder ,and we don't really know how the virus would affect him, hopefully he's no more at risk than any child, there are two special primary school,s in my LEA and the one my son doesn't attend has a lot of children with profound disabilities ,tube fed ,on oxygen ,in chairs etc I can't imagine the worry the parents of those children must have.

@x2boys

I know it's scary *@Summersnearlyover*, my son isn't medically vulnerable ,but he does have a rare chromosome disorder ,and we don't really know how the virus would affect him, hopefully he's no more at risk than any child, there are two special primary school,s in my LEA and the one my son doesn't attend has a lot of children with profound disabilities ,tube fed ,on oxygen ,in chairs etc I can't imagine the worry the parents of those children must have.

SS have separate guidance. It includes use of PPE where appropriate.

@weepingwillow22 because the government say that children can’t infect adults, clearly many people are believing this. We will have to see what happens during the coming months, lots of grandparents will be doing after school childcare.

@x2boys It is scary, mine isn’t going back and that’s ok with the head, it’s down to the head whether they issue fines or not and she said she wouldn’t be. I can cope with my child full time, many parents can’t, I know some who are desperate for some respite after 6 long months but are reluctant to send their children back due to them being medically vulnerable.

Have you asked your GP or consultant if your son is more at risk? Since the day my son was born I have never wished he was NT, I do at the moment because there is very little provision for children like him, not when that idiot Johnson is shouting about all children need to be back at school, once again SEN medically vulnerable children are forgotten about. Their lives don’t matter, they are expendable.

@Forgone90

All this shows is that test and trace is working... Also it looks like its teachers spreading it most likely through staffroom tea breaks.

Pointless post trying to scaremonger

Yep teachers have a lot of those

@itsgettingweird

Byallmeans it's still irrelevant how seriously I'll the person with it is.

If it's spreading within a school community and teachers are sick schools will close. How sick makes no difference. They won't be working even if asymptomatic.

And once there is spread it can go and infect those who will end up in hospital.

Nurovirus doesn't hospitalise many people. Schools still close when it infects enough people.

Of course its relevant - if the virus is becoming less likely to cause significant health problems its very relevant. Otherwise we could just be talking about headlice or chicken pox!