First School Closure in Scotland

[FlySheMust]

metro.co.uk/2020/08/24/coronavirus-outbreak-shuts-school-17-staff-two-pupils-test-positive-13169219/?fbclid=IwAR3hIqGrO5MDwKgBrRiQsvlOchvOv8umJ52_ZdIQlyTMn4jLhVRf3aw-Wpc

Makes "safe to open" look a bit silly.

I reckon the average teacher would love time to have a tea break and get the chance to spread it

This is the next government messaging rather than action.

Blame the teachers - they must be the reason Covid is spreading in schools

Palace there is no evidence it's becoming less likely to cause serious illness.
Age is a huge factor in hospitalisation . Alongside pre existing conditions.

Vulnerable staff haven't been in school yet. They are now.

Over 60 is a much higher risk. Most staff aren't this age.

But whether someone is asymptomatic or hospitalised if it's spreading through a school it'll close.

The closures is what we are discussing.

There were always going to be cases where this happened. This is like when pubs reopened - people (especially on MN) made a huge deal of the first few that had to close, insisted that it would be the beginning of the end. A couple of months on and there's no evidence pubs have contributed to a general rise in cases and thousands of them have been open with only a tiny minority closing. I'm not saying school opening will go the same way, but I am saying that you can't tell anything from a single outbreak at a single school.

We are down to one or two deaths now a day
4 today

This particular school is quite obviously not following the guidelines. Clearly 17 members of staff won't have caught the virus from 2 pupils without any other pupils becoming infected if the guidance was being followed and such levels of infections amongst the staff population would suggest a high degree of transmission between staff members which simply shouldn't be possible if the guidance was being followed.

@StatisticalSense

This particular school is quite obviously not following the guidelines. Clearly 17 members of staff won't have caught the virus from 2 pupils without any other pupils becoming infected if the guidance was being followed and such levels of infections amongst the staff population would suggest a high degree of transmission between staff members which simply shouldn't be possible if the guidance was being followed.

The type of school means social distancing will be extremely difficult - even for adults. There's a high ratio of adults to children in special schools & the classrooms are not big enough to allow much if any at all distancing.

So easy to point the finger at teachers....

@Shitfuckoh
The staff should be distancing from each other (except in very limited circumstances regarding personal care that requires 2 staff and even in such cases it should be the same combination of staff each time) even if they can't distance from pupils. It is beyond unrealistic that 2 children would have managed to infect 17 teachers without infecting a single other child, however it is completely realistic that teachers have infected each other by failing to social distance or otherwise follow the guidance.

I don't think it's certain at all that the students will all have been tested. I know I have read several posts on mumsnet from parents of children with special needs, where they have commented that they will have to wait out the 2 weeks isolation because their children cannot tolerate being swabbed. I think it's very possible that some of them will be waiting out the 2 weeks here as well.

You can tell them to social distance / follow the guidance all day long but some schools are too small to be able to social distance. There is no PPE either apart from during personal care.
To be honest, where ever the spread has come from it doesn't matter - this has just highlighted that due to staff having to isolate schools will be closing due to a lack of staff.

The type of school means social distancing will be extremely difficult - even for adults.
There's a high ratio of adults to children in special schools & the classrooms are not big enough to allow much if any at all distancing.

This does sound a factor. And the closure even more so that complex medical situations mean the whole school is closed earlier than another might be.

Local SS here.

2 classes. 5 staff in each.

Everything will be done properly but the toilet are shared between both classes and they share an entrance.

You can't re configure the whole school!

So easy to see how that happen tbh.

This particular school is quite obviously not following the guidelines. Clearly 17 members of staff won't have caught the virus from 2 pupils without any other pupils becoming infected if the guidance was being followed and such levels of infections amongst the staff population would suggest a high degree of transmission between staff members which simply shouldn't be possible if the guidance was being followed.

Nice to know that you no nothing about this school, do you work or have you shadowed in a large sn school? Staff cannit distance when toileting, feeding, administration of medication, moving , rolling, supporting physio, most tasks involve some amount of hand over hand interaction. Guidance is wear a mask is exposed for more than 15mins at less than 2m. When dealing with a distressed child who needs restraint or support you can't stop to collect a mask etc. Sd is easier between pupils in these schools as there are fewer pupils per class, some are not mobile. Staff are working uin really difficult conditions, they work bloody hard for not much pay, the safeguards are like chocolate fireguards. Don't blame staff until you have proof they did things wrong!

" Don't blame staff until you have proof they did things wrong!"

That ship has sailed; teachers are too careless about sd outside of school or during coffee breaks apparently!

Not actively trying to blame teachers but as a teacher myself who has met colleagues etc outside work over the last month or two, I can tell you not one has been socially distancing

No adults I know are socially distancing

So why do people presume teachers are doing this in the workplace?

Literally no one seems to be distancing anymore at work you only have to walk round shops, cafes, play centres, offices etc

All normal

People do realise that you aren’t tested unless you have symptoms? You could have a child without symptoms spreading it, many children in class infected and you’d never know, unless they were symptomatic. Then the poor teachers who are more prone to get symptoms, look like they are the only ones catching it?

People are missing some key facts here, and I’m sorry to say, this will happen in more schools. If teachers are not protected from catching it, don’t be surprised when they all get it and school closes. Doesn’t mean it’s their fault.

Well this isn't very comforting as the parent of a disabled child who attends a special school.

Not as a teacher who is about to start teaching in special school....

*nor

Our authority is strict on social distancing within schools, the point is in sn schools unless you are in ppe all day you will be exposed if it is in the environment. Please also remember that as we enter winter sn schools will not always be able to keep windows open for ventilation due to health needs of kids. Sn schools are very like care homes in terms of care given.

Why would you blame teachers or anyone for contracting a highly infectious virus? I’m sure they don’t want to have it!

I don’t gwt the paranoia about asymptomatic people transmitting virus

People who are asymptomatic are not tested because their viral load is so low it leads to negative tests

That’s the reason nhs guidelines state not to get tested

Therefore why do we think these people are passing the virus on if they aren’t even showing positive on an internal swab!

No I have,nt asked his Paediatrician @Summersnearlyover,he's a healthy child in spite of his complex disabilities ,and though lots of children with rare chromosome disorders do have medical issues ,he doesn't thankfully ,but it doesn't stop me worrying ,I think if he was medically vulnerable I just wouldn't send him back .

Special schools and early years classes are similar in that each room will frequently contain not just 2 staff (eg teacher and TA) but multiple staff who work together in the same room. It is difficult / impossible to split the adults up in most classrooms. They are there to support a group of needy / vulnerable children.

@Vinoonasunnyday

Not actively trying to blame teachers but as a teacher myself who has met colleagues etc outside work over the last month or two, I can tell you not one has been socially distancing

No adults I know are socially distancing

So why do people presume teachers are doing this in the workplace?

Literally no one seems to be distancing anymore at work you only have to walk round shops, cafes, play centres, offices etc

All normal

That is really odd.

Where I live, everyone is still social distancing. I popped into school today for something, and the other staff there and i naturally stayed well away from each other.

100% mask wearing by adults in local shopping centre, though a few teens weren't or were not wearing them properly.

Good social distancing in queues, along the street, though again groups of teens and children in parks tend to be more than 6 and usually slightly closer than 2 metres, though most still making a good attempt.

[quote StatisticalSense]@Shitfuckoh
The staff should be distancing from each other (except in very limited circumstances regarding personal care that requires 2 staff and even in such cases it should be the same combination of staff each time) even if they can't distance from pupils. It is beyond unrealistic that 2 children would have managed to infect 17 teachers without infecting a single other child, however it is completely realistic that teachers have infected each other by failing to social distance or otherwise follow the guidance.[/quote]
In a special school you may ell have 5+ adults within a single room, caring for a single group of pupils. Within that room, air will be shared, PPE will not be used and there will not be enough space for SD - exactly the same as for normal classrooms, but with a higher than usual adult:child ratio.

Equally, because of the intensity of the work, adults may be on rotas, so the group of 5+ may well not be consistent all day every day, to allow for necessary breaks, and it may be that adults will work together closely with a child at certain points in the day.

So while you may be picturing adults close together e.g. in a staff room or corridor or meeting outside school, it is far more likely that those 17+ were following full guidance BUT were sharing classrooms too small to socially distance as part of their normal work.

Plus of course further children could be infected but go ahead blame teachers. They are used to it by now.