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Original poster

I think I agree with everything Chris Whitty said....

179 replies

sunseekin · 23/08/2020 09:10

It’s more what he didn’t say....

He talked about the total risks. I agree the total risk of keeping children off school is higher than the total risk of sending them in.

But I am disappointed that didn’t attempt to drill down at all into individual family‘s circumstances. Ideally all children should have the option of school, but the enforcement in a pandemic, especially with no regard to these individual circumstances is unethical and something that should never be allowed to happen again. School isn’t the best or safest place for all children at the moment.

He talked about the risks being low. I think the risk to individual children is low.

Not sure that I like how he switched from talking about the total risk to individual risk without highlighting it though. Maybe it’s the editing rather than Chris that’s being misleading. After all where there is individual risk and exponential growth things could change quickly.

Furthermore it appears that he didn’t seem to add timescales with regards schools, ie for how long does he expect the risk to remain low and how quickly does he expect the risk to grow?

He talked about harsh winters and being prepared for Covid-19 to cause problems and that they would look to close shops or pubs first if (if - come on!) opening schools raised the r value.

But he didn’t talk about forward planning for this; I can only presume that knee jerk reactions make more economic sense (so long as the nhs doesn’t start to get overwhelmed).

I really like Chris but I feel like someone has cherry picked statements from what he was trying to say. I would like to see him on television and wonder why that hasn’t been the case....

OP posts:
monkeytennis97 · 23/08/2020 09:13

Absolutely! Additionally the BBC is reporting using misleading photos to enhance the government's message (eg the two socially distanced kids with masks on in their headline story).
This is NOT how it's going to be.

Frightened secondary teacher here.

Original poster
sunseekin · 23/08/2020 09:17

@monkeytennis97

Absolutely! Additionally the BBC is reporting using misleading photos to enhance the government's message (eg the two socially distanced kids with masks on in their headline story). This is NOT how it's going to be.

Frightened secondary teacher here.

It’s just beyond belief. No extra space, no extra safeguards except for hand washing and one way systems (!!!!).

My whole perception of the country and how it takes care of its citizens has been completely shaken up. I’m thinking of you all and permanently willing the situation to improve.

OP posts:
Original poster
sunseekin · 23/08/2020 09:18

And the photos and what they’re leading people to believe will be happen is beyond redemption too.

OP posts:
lonelyplanet · 23/08/2020 09:23

The BBC photo of a primary classroom in the reporting of this is totally misleading.

CKBJ · 23/08/2020 09:32

I have read the Chris Whitty “speech” and watched it on sky, agree with op. I think we are all aware that the actual risk to children is low and no one is is actually saying keep schools shut (well maybe a few). No doubt this is part of the latest government propaganda.

I wish Witty acknowledged the following:

  1. The risk to families, especially vulnerable by sending their children to school
  1. The anxiety some children are under as they are scared they are going o bring the virus home to their families
  1. The risk to teachers
  1. Distinguish between a child say of 5years and one of 15years
  1. How the acknowledged risk to families and the wider community can be mitigated to prevent a very likely rise in cases rather than waiting for a rise to happen
Redolent · 23/08/2020 09:47

No mention of teachers. In fact, he holds staff responsible for future spreading of the virus in schools through their mingling together.

He also predicts a difficult winter. No shit, with that approach.

Worriedmum999 · 23/08/2020 10:08

He has gone massively down in my estimations with this speech. It’s treating the public like idiots just like they did at the start when they lied about the benefits of mask wearing to save their own arses when they didn’t have enough PPE.

For SOME children it will be far less risk for them to go to school. That includes children who are healthy and have healthy families but also families with some risks who did not engage with home learning or who have struggled mentally/financially etc.

However, for those children with some risk in their family who have done ok at home then no one can say that it is safer for them to go to school. It may be only a small risk of losing a parent but if that does happen it is absolutely devastating and runs the real risk of ruining their entire life.

onedayinthefuture · 23/08/2020 10:21

I'm absolutely going to get flamed for this but anyone who doesn't feel safe sending their kids back, they can home school them or pay for a tutor? Any teachers who don't feel safe, they can stop working until the pandemic is over. It's easy. Schools will have to fill the gaps in the meantime but it will be managed.

Original poster
sunseekin · 23/08/2020 10:24

@onedayinthefuture

I'm absolutely going to get flamed for this but anyone who doesn't feel safe sending their kids back, they can home school them or pay for a tutor? Any teachers who don't feel safe, they can stop working until the pandemic is over. It's easy. Schools will have to fill the gaps in the meantime but it will be managed.
Are you on the governments advisory body? 😂
OP posts:
Original poster
sunseekin · 23/08/2020 10:27

@Redolent

No mention of teachers. In fact, he holds staff responsible for future spreading of the virus in schools through their mingling together.

He also predicts a difficult winter. No shit, with that approach.

I agree, very telling that he didn’t mention (or there was no suitable quote??) re teachers. They perhaps couldn’t even cherry pick here. I suspect he shares a lot of our concerns about the proposals for teacher risks.
OP posts:
SymoneT · 23/08/2020 10:27

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Jrobhatch29 · 23/08/2020 10:28

@SymoneT

We must create a situation where the schools are forced to shut. We have the power to achieve this.
Are you the fruit and cat person from this morning Hmm
Original poster
sunseekin · 23/08/2020 10:29

@SymoneT

We must create a situation where the schools are forced to shut. We have the power to achieve this.
I’m not sure that what anyone wants. In fact I think it’s what everyone wants to avoid at all costs.
OP posts:
Original poster
sunseekin · 23/08/2020 10:29

*is

OP posts:
Original poster
sunseekin · 23/08/2020 10:30

@Jrobhatch29 I think she might be. Maybe mumsnet told her I reported her post 😂

OP posts:
mrshoho · 23/08/2020 10:30

I wish he had discussed the WHO's advice that all children over 12 should be wearing masks. How does this fit in with the UK plans for secondary schools and FE?

nc600 · 23/08/2020 10:32

"Any teachers who don't feel safe, they can stop working until the pandemic is over. It's easy."

Could you explain how that would be "easy" to do?

GreyGardens88 · 23/08/2020 10:32

He's part of a government that's got everything completely wrong so far, I don't listen to a word he has to say tbh!

Original poster
sunseekin · 23/08/2020 10:33

@mrshoho

I wish he had discussed the WHO's advice that all children over 12 should be wearing masks. How does this fit in with the UK plans for secondary schools and FE?
I wonder how he himself feels about the message “he” put across this morning. We need briefings and he needs to be asked questions and I agree masks needs to be up there on the list.
OP posts:
onedayinthefuture · 23/08/2020 10:41

@nc600 do you know how many graduates we have in this country currently with no work? Private schools take on plenty of new graduates who don't need teaching qualifications. It could happen and I very much doubt we'd have a mass crisis of teacher shortages if there was the threat of no pay and joining the unemployment queue like so many others.

SoloMummy · 23/08/2020 10:42

@Worriedmum999

He has gone massively down in my estimations with this speech. It’s treating the public like idiots just like they did at the start when they lied about the benefits of mask wearing to save their own arses when they didn’t have enough PPE.

For SOME children it will be far less risk for them to go to school. That includes children who are healthy and have healthy families but also families with some risks who did not engage with home learning or who have struggled mentally/financially etc.

However, for those children with some risk in their family who have done ok at home then no one can say that it is safer for them to go to school. It may be only a small risk of losing a parent but if that does happen it is absolutely devastating and runs the real risk of ruining their entire life.

My child only has one parent, me. This parent was shielding until "paused" for political reasons. My child is aware that I could die, not because I have verbalise this, but the primary ht did this, by categorically telling them children are safe and adults not. If I die, my child is an orphan, due to being forced to send my child back when I don't believe the current lack of arrangements are safe to do so or deregister to continue homeschooling ft alongside wfh, running the risk that there wouldn't be a school placement to return to. Rock and hard Place.
Appuskidu · 23/08/2020 10:46

@onedayinthefuture

I'm absolutely going to get flamed for this but anyone who doesn't feel safe sending their kids back, they can home school them or pay for a tutor? Any teachers who don't feel safe, they can stop working until the pandemic is over. It's easy. Schools will have to fill the gaps in the meantime but it will be managed.
As a teacher, if I don’t feel safe and want to stop working, I need to resign.

The next resignation date is October 31st which would allow me to leave at the end of December. That doesn’t help me much, does it?

Not so ‘easy’, maybe.

SoloMummy · 23/08/2020 10:47

@mrshoho

I wish he had discussed the WHO's advice that all children over 12 should be wearing masks. How does this fit in with the UK plans for secondary schools and FE?
Who also advise: Physical distancing: Physical distancing of at least 1 metre between people should be implemented in the school premises and in the classrooms. This includes increasing desk spacing and staging recesses, breaks and lunchbreaks; limiting the mixing of classes or age groups; considering smaller classes or alternating attendance schedules, and ensuring good ventilation in classrooms. Who and unicef also agree with masks on 6-11 yo of they can manage this. My KS1 child with additional needs certainly can, considering this is now life for us, but obviously many parents have chosen not to do this.
Morfin · 23/08/2020 10:48

[quote onedayinthefuture]@nc600 do you know how many graduates we have in this country currently with no work? Private schools take on plenty of new graduates who don't need teaching qualifications. It could happen and I very much doubt we'd have a mass crisis of teacher shortages if there was the threat of no pay and joining the unemployment queue like so many others.
[/quote]
Yes because that will work, untrained unqualified people teaching young people, half who don't want to be there anyway. I mean there is no skill at all in engaging teenagers and teaching them a subject.

SoloMummy · 23/08/2020 10:48

@Appuskidu
Resignation dates have always been an issue for teschers though.
If you're anxious etc, I'd consider getting signed off by your gp.