I think I agree with everything Chris Whitty said....

[sunseekin]

It’s more what he didn’t say....

He talked about the total risks. I agree the total risk of keeping children off school is higher than the total risk of sending them in.

But I am disappointed that didn’t attempt to drill down at all into individual family‘s circumstances. Ideally all children should have the option of school, but the enforcement in a pandemic, especially with no regard to these individual circumstances is unethical and something that should never be allowed to happen again. School isn’t the best or safest place for all children at the moment.

He talked about the risks being low. I think the risk to individual children is low.

Not sure that I like how he switched from talking about the total risk to individual risk without highlighting it though. Maybe it’s the editing rather than Chris that’s being misleading. After all where there is individual risk and exponential growth things could change quickly.

Furthermore it appears that he didn’t seem to add timescales with regards schools, ie for how long does he expect the risk to remain low and how quickly does he expect the risk to grow?

He talked about harsh winters and being prepared for Covid-19 to cause problems and that they would look to close shops or pubs first if (if - come on!) opening schools raised the r value.

But he didn’t talk about forward planning for this; I can only presume that knee jerk reactions make more economic sense (so long as the nhs doesn’t start to get overwhelmed).

I really like Chris but I feel like someone has cherry picked statements from what he was trying to say. I would like to see him on television and wonder why that hasn’t been the case....

They really don't! I know this for certain too.

Maybe once but not now. Not in anything like workable numbers

My school did employ a completely unqualified physics teacher doing her Phd. She was an ex pupil. She lasted less than a fortnight.

[quote onedayinthefuture]@Worriedmum999 but they do, they really do. I know this for certain. Many are young new graduates. They are heavily monitored though and it's easy for schools to let them go if they aren't good enough. Many private schools need these young teachers with no responsibilities. They can certainly get a lot more from them in terms of extra curricular activities, evenings and weekends. [/quote]
The private schools around here seem to be very good. They hire qualified teachers.

I can’t stand Chris Whitty. He’s so blooming negative.

I’m a teacher and I know that if a child brings Covid into school, then there is nothing we can go. Particularly if it’s an asymptomatic case. It’s will spread - so the trick is to stop it getting into schools full-stop.

If a child is sick with symptoms of Covid; or if they have a friend or family member that they’ve been in contact with that has Covid, please don’t send them in. That’s the only way we’ll keep Covid out of our schools.

I felt like he was kind of compromised/conflicted. I can't put my finger on it but watching that interview made me feel uncomfortable. And usually CW is the only one who fills me with a modicum of confidence

@Appuskidu but that doesn't make them better does it? An unqualified teacher with a passion for their subject and the best mentoring and courses available to them, not to mention the threat of losing their job, could and can be absolutely excellent. They won't last long in a private school if not.

@DBML I'm glad it's not just me. All I've read is so positive about him and I just don't get it. I much preferred Jonathan Van Tam, he struck me as a bit scary but I trusted him. Obviously someone that trustworthy doesn't suit the current govt.

I know 4 teachers, 2 qualified working in state comps, 2 unqualified working in very expensive private schools. The older one admits they wouldn't cope with 30 in a class.

Oh, they exist in all sectors! Just not in large , workable numbers and there are rules about training and supervision, and the pay is lower. It's not a solution.

@ancientgran

I've never understood the "love" for Chris Whitty, he has got lots wrong or maybe has just been weak and gone along with the govt but I don't trust anything he says from no masks/masks to locking down too late.

I think he has been misquoted and is being misused by the government. They know he is the most popular member of their team. I do agree, despite liking him I think a lot has gone wrong because of him. But equally a braver or more outspoken scientist wouldn’t have been used.

The government were/are set on making their own mistakes and will always be able to find a scientist to fit their politics. I think he is maybe doing what he can without being removed from position.

There are quite a lot of reading between the lines opportunities in the interview if you watch it carefully; I am not sure the excerpts make sure the public reassurance that the government was hoping for. As a PP said the timing of when he looked down was also very very telling.

Chris Whitty was behind the later lockdown, I believe, having personally invented the concept of behavioural fatigue based purely on his experience with patients failing to complete courses of antibiotics.
www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/29/revealed-the-inside-story-of-uk-covid-19-coronavirus-crisis

He has struck me throughout as a yes man, unlike Van Tam, who seemed a man who would speak truth to power.

How ironic given that behavioural fatigue has no set in, instead of avoiding it, he made it far worse 😢 I still reckon Boris had his agenda and would have found the science to fit it though.

If Chris’s views had been different we probably would have just done the same but never known his name.

Can posters who say that teachers can just leave, kindly fuck off?

What are we supposed to leave for? Are you going to fund our benefits?

@DBML

I can’t stand Chris Whitty. He’s so blooming negative.

I’m a teacher and I know that if a child brings Covid into school, then there is nothing we can go. Particularly if it’s an asymptomatic case. It’s will spread - so the trick is to stop it getting into schools full-stop.

If a child is sick with symptoms of Covid; or if they have a friend or family member that they’ve been in contact with that has Covid, please don’t send them in. That’s the only way we’ll keep Covid out of our schools.

But if I have been in contact with someone with Covid and am told to self isolate for 14 days, it is my understanding that so long as I show no symptoms, the rest of my family carry on going out. So my children would continue going to school. If I didn’t send them to school when our household had no symptoms, then we could get fined...

Well in Scotland we are back about to go into our 3rd week. It's both better and worse than I thought.
Kids are pleased to be back , getting back is worse than the thought. We wash our hands more some of the teachers wear masks sometimes.
We have staggered starts and lunches ( which really help with behaviour).
However it's a primary school like many with 100s of children and lots of adults. If it's in school it will spread , it might spread a bit slower but it will spread.
The only hope is that parents will keep kids off and get them tested and staff will do the same , but it only takes a few staff to be off and it starts to quickly get difficult to manage.
Everyone is doing their best and I'm fortunate not to have any underlying health conditions and nor do my kids, but I'm not sure what the future holds.

He said it’ll be fine unless there’s a local outbreak right at the end.

Yeah that’s kind of also what those of us who want schools open ASAP and with social distancing think Chris.

So you eventually control that outbreak but what happens to the vulnerable families that are far more likely to be infected in the meantime.

And he conveniently ignored what had happened in other countries. I guess his “.can’t have full confidence” words were his get out of jail free here.

And track and trace is too inadequate to spot these outbreaks early on.

He stood by Boris and backed herd immunity.

I hate the fact I’m in a position where I can’t fully trust him. I hate my self for this. I hate them for this.

But when I listen to the other scientists who aren’t In the governments locket say otherwise. I dont.

@BadAbbot

He said it’ll be fine unless there’s a local outbreak right at the end.

Yeah that’s kind of also what those of us who want schools open ASAP and with social distancing think Chris.

So you eventually control that outbreak but what happens to the vulnerable families that are far more likely to be infected in the meantime.

And he conveniently ignored what had happened in other countries. I guess his “.can’t have full confidence” words were his get out of jail free here.

And track and trace is too inadequate to spot these outbreaks early on.

He stood by Boris and backed herd immunity.

I hate the fact I’m in a position where I can’t fully trust him. I hate my self for this. I hate them for this.

But when I listen to the other scientists who aren’t In the governments locket say otherwise. I dont.

Indeed

If you’re told to isolate your household should too. That is clear.

I’m sure it’s hugely reassuring to hear him say that the children who have died had underlying health conditions.

Especially reassuring for parents of children with underlying health conditions who will have to return to school, be fined or be forced to home school.

@BadAbbot

If you’re told to isolate your household should too. That is clear.

No it isn’t.

You don’t isolate because you have been in contact with someone who is isolating.

@BadAbbot

If you’re told to isolate your household should too. That is clear.

Not unless you have symptoms.

If I was in contact with someone who tested positive, I would have to isolate for 14 days but my household would not.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/testing-and-tracing/nhs-test-and-trace-if-youve-been-in-contact-with-a-person-who-has-coronavirus/

Chris Whitty just tweeted this:

"The UK CMOs and DCMOs have summarised the current evidence on schools and COVID-19.

gov.uk/government/news/statement-from-the-uk-chief-medical-officers-on-schools-and-childcare-reopening

The risk of a child coming to significant long term harm from COVID solely due to school is very low. The risk of harm to many children if they don't go to school is high."

"As with many of the choices we face on COVID this is about balancing risk. We encourage all parents and school staff to read it. "

mobile.twitter.com/cmo_england

Why are not Gp surgeries giving face to face appointments. Why are the Mps not back in House of Commons. Community transmission is lot, so get on with your job.

I note that Harries and Van Tam are also signaturies to that advice

@Appuskidu 😢😢 I know what you mean, I couldn’t believe that we were back there again when I heard that. The government managed to delay lockdown by quoting death statistics alongside “underlying health conditions” data. What a way to reassure the majority. It’s just horrible and makes me despair for humanity.

I really hope that anybody shielding (forget the pause date) is able to stay away. It can’t continue for long, it simply can’t.

If you’re being bullied, the only choice you have is to play the rules carefully. Nobody will judge you. And if they do, I would suggest you shouldn’t care. If you’re a parent and the school know your child is safe, they aren’t going to come knocking on your door to check that you really do have a temperature. And if you’re a teacher off school with that or stress, the reasons why are very clear.

Exponential growth is fast and the guidelines are criminal. I really think that will be proven one day. It goes against all the WHO guidance and everything that we are doing elsewhere.