I think I agree with everything Chris Whitty said....

[sunseekin]

It’s more what he didn’t say....

He talked about the total risks. I agree the total risk of keeping children off school is higher than the total risk of sending them in.

But I am disappointed that didn’t attempt to drill down at all into individual family‘s circumstances. Ideally all children should have the option of school, but the enforcement in a pandemic, especially with no regard to these individual circumstances is unethical and something that should never be allowed to happen again. School isn’t the best or safest place for all children at the moment.

He talked about the risks being low. I think the risk to individual children is low.

Not sure that I like how he switched from talking about the total risk to individual risk without highlighting it though. Maybe it’s the editing rather than Chris that’s being misleading. After all where there is individual risk and exponential growth things could change quickly.

Furthermore it appears that he didn’t seem to add timescales with regards schools, ie for how long does he expect the risk to remain low and how quickly does he expect the risk to grow?

He talked about harsh winters and being prepared for Covid-19 to cause problems and that they would look to close shops or pubs first if (if - come on!) opening schools raised the r value.

But he didn’t talk about forward planning for this; I can only presume that knee jerk reactions make more economic sense (so long as the nhs doesn’t start to get overwhelmed).

I really like Chris but I feel like someone has cherry picked statements from what he was trying to say. I would like to see him on television and wonder why that hasn’t been the case....

@Morfin
Sadly, unqualified and untrained staff have been commonplace now for over a decade. In colleges its the norm, and in schools they have hltas etc, so really it's not as big a stretch as it would have been when I entered the profession nearly 3 decades ago.

I think they should all go and visit some secondary schools in Scotland and see how it actually works. They keep showing pictures of socially distanced classrooms with few children in, or pictures with people wearing masks.

I have repeatedly said there is an in between - it isn’t either everyone back all together or not at all. None of us want schools closed to the majority - but how about blended learning/part time learning at secondary? You then are mitigating against the risks of both Covid and the risks of students being isolated at home with no school at all. I haven’t yet seen ANY report considering this approach in relation to the risks of both.

@onedayinthefuture

"nc600 do you know how many graduates we have in this country currently with no work? Private schools take on plenty of new graduates who don't need teaching qualifications. It could happen and I very much doubt we'd have a mass crisis of teacher shortages if there was the threat of no pay and joining the unemployment queue like so many others."

Right, and that makes it "easy" for someone who has taught for 20 years, loves their job, has a mortgage and children to support, has debts, has a contract that says if they resign now they need to work until December does it? Yeah, easy peasy

@MrsHerculePoirio if you scroll down past the BBC socially distanced picture in the news headline they have this picture of Scottish Schools. Looks like every other senior school pre Covid to me.

Being an anxious teacher is not as outlying as some of the more dismissive people on MN would have you believe.
Teacher Tapp is a teacher survey app, quite widely used, but generally by very keen and invested teachers who tend towards optimism.

Last week nearly 40% of their respondents aged over 50 said they felt very anxious about a full return to school and still over 1/4 of those who are younger.

That's a lot of teachers.

I agree the government need to give out reassuring messages to parents and that school is massively important for children of all ages but they are declining -or choosing- to provide any reassurance to teaching and other schools staff, in a time when nearly all universities are teaching online until at least January.

The anxiety is not just about risks of catching the virus : it is also about a return to a job under stressful circumstances, lack of control and the responsibility to manage children's and teenage behaviour in whole new ways. We feel like our usual toolkits have been totally removed, and many of us have unsupportive or uncommunicative senior leaders to deal with.

For children who have been shielding or vulnerable you red to speak to whomever is in charge of their care to assess for that individual child is it safe to go back.

For children with an adult who is extreme clinically vulnerable an individual risk assessment needs to be done. Who does this is unclear.

Schools need to outline how they will support home learning for those children.

[quote SoloMummy]@Morfin
Sadly, unqualified and untrained staff have been commonplace now for over a decade. In colleges its the norm, and in schools they have hltas etc, so really it's not as big a stretch as it would have been when I entered the profession nearly 3 decades ago.[/quote]
Not at my large secondary comp, or any I know around here. We have very, very few HLTAs (all been cut due to budget) and they would only take support classes of very small numbers out of other lessons for intervention mostly.

Even if you could recruit lots of untrained people to ‘teach’ I can see how that would work out in a classroom 🤣

Do you think Chris Witty has been in a senior school recently. Do you think he is aware of the reality or has BJ told him that senior schools will be SD?

@Appuskidu what happens if you end your contract early? There is always a way out and I sincerely hope when this pandemic is over that you will be able to return. I just don't think any job is worth doing if you feel so unsafe.

@morfin I missed that one! But yep looks like normal to me....

[quote onedayinthefuture]@Appuskidu what happens if you end your contract early? There is always a way out and I sincerely hope when this pandemic is over that you will be able to return. I just don't think any job is worth doing if you feel so unsafe.[/quote]
I haven’t said that I felt so unsafe I want to leave.

I was pointing it out that in no way was it ‘easy’.

@hopeishere

For children who have been shielding or vulnerable you red to speak to whomever is in charge of their care to assess for that individual child is it safe to go back.

For children with an adult who is extreme clinically vulnerable an individual risk assessment needs to be done. Who does this is unclear.

Schools need to outline how they will support home learning for those children.

And how they will support children who are off school with a cough/temp not related to corona. Or have to self isolate whilst they wait for their siblings test result to come back, or whilst their 'bubble' bursts or part of it does. And if Corona is caught in the family to support them until either 10 days after they have caught it or 14 days after the last person in their house had symptoms.

It seems some parents are so keen to get schools back at all costs that they will suddenly put up with unqualified teachers.

My DH works in a large private school. All of the teachers are qualified.

In DS's (MAT) school, a couple of the MFL teachers are not UK qualified,and not qualified to teach languages. To put it bluntly, they are dreadful.

At my school, a growing number of lessons are taken by cover supervisors where there are holes in timetable : they don't plan, mark or give feedback , obviously,as this is not their role. They also struggle more with class management.

Be careful what you wish for.

I agree that much of what Whitty said was fine but that it has been soundbited. They obviously chose him to front the message over the Ed Sec!

@hopeishere schools need support and financial help for all that to happen

@Morfin

Do you think Chris Witty has been in a senior school recently. Do you think he is aware of the reality or has BJ told him that senior schools will be SD?

I think they have no idea of the reality. The penny has only just dropped with my HoD!

[quote SymoneT]@appuskidu teachers need to refuse to work on the ground of Health and Safety[/quote]
Would it not be better to invest a bit of money into schools now and make a few simple changes so that people didn’t feel like they were unsafe in the work place?

As people have said on other posts-things like masks being encouraged, more funding for hand washing equipment, for staffing to cover unwell teachers to avoid Class closures and definitely parents needing to provide proof of a negative test before returning them to school.

Those things are quite simple and easy.

One of my children is shielding and extremely vulnerable. The second younger one, desperately needs to go back to school. I am on sick leave but when I go back my DM will have to step in for the school runs. She is nearly 70 so is in the at risk group. Do I send my younger child in and keep him away from his sibling? Do I stay on sick leave to spare DM? Do I send my shielded DC in to school despite him being hospitalised/ICU/still unwell and weak for 3 months?

I feel that whatever decision I make it's going to go wrong.

It always makes me laugh when idiots say that private schools habitually recruit unqualified teachers. This may occasionally happen but it’s usually someone who is at the top of their field who hasn’t formally done their teaching qualification (but who will work towards it), for example, an excellent musician or choir conductor. Not a random, wet behind the ears physics graduate . My child’s private school has excellent working conditions and usually has over 100 applicants for each vacancy. They have plenty of money to pay an excellent qualified teacher. They would not employ an unqualified graduate

The British Heart Foundation advice says anyone with a hear condition should remain at 2 m from others and encourage all around them to wear masks.

The advice form WHO over the last couple of days not only advised masks for all those over 12, but advised those with heart conditions to wear proper medical masks.

Tell me how my secondary maths teaching DH is supposed to feel fine with this? Or the two children I teach with heart conditions?

I've never understood the "love" for Chris Whitty, he has got lots wrong or maybe has just been weak and gone along with the govt but I don't trust anything he says from no masks/masks to locking down too late.

"Private schools take on plenty of new graduates who don't need teaching qualifications"

Not true.

[quote Morfin]@hopeishere schools need support and financial help for all that to happen[/quote]
Absolutely agree.

@Worriedmum999 but they do, they really do. I know this for certain. Many are young new graduates. They are heavily monitored though and it's easy for schools to let them go if they aren't good enough. Many private schools need these young teachers with no responsibilities. They can certainly get a lot more from them in terms of extra curricular activities, evenings and weekends.