I think I agree with everything Chris Whitty said....

[sunseekin]

It’s more what he didn’t say....

He talked about the total risks. I agree the total risk of keeping children off school is higher than the total risk of sending them in.

But I am disappointed that didn’t attempt to drill down at all into individual family‘s circumstances. Ideally all children should have the option of school, but the enforcement in a pandemic, especially with no regard to these individual circumstances is unethical and something that should never be allowed to happen again. School isn’t the best or safest place for all children at the moment.

He talked about the risks being low. I think the risk to individual children is low.

Not sure that I like how he switched from talking about the total risk to individual risk without highlighting it though. Maybe it’s the editing rather than Chris that’s being misleading. After all where there is individual risk and exponential growth things could change quickly.

Furthermore it appears that he didn’t seem to add timescales with regards schools, ie for how long does he expect the risk to remain low and how quickly does he expect the risk to grow?

He talked about harsh winters and being prepared for Covid-19 to cause problems and that they would look to close shops or pubs first if (if - come on!) opening schools raised the r value.

But he didn’t talk about forward planning for this; I can only presume that knee jerk reactions make more economic sense (so long as the nhs doesn’t start to get overwhelmed).

I really like Chris but I feel like someone has cherry picked statements from what he was trying to say. I would like to see him on television and wonder why that hasn’t been the case....

@Morfin With your experience what would you suggest we do about schools?

@NotAKaren

All employees deserve respect along with decent pay and proper working conditions but that isn't necessarily the reality of many of today's workplaces.

Does this mean teachers should willingly join in a race to the bottom?

My DF has a lung condition but as he wasn't furloughed he had to return sharpish to his zero-hours factory job. He gets tested regularly but it isn't at all what I want for him. Why should I accept appalling conditions for myself?

It’s a shame that schools didn’t make a better job of part time of online learning between March - July.

Unfortunately the experience of many parents/children was ‘online worksheets with no differentiation or feedback.’

That’s not an education. Nobody expects for a minute that anything is different now, that schools have something better to offer.

If they had offered more, I’d be happy for that to continue to some degree.

It was an absolute shitshow.

@CountessFrog

It’s a shame that schools didn’t make a better job of part time of online learning between March - July.

Unfortunately the experience of many parents/children was ‘online worksheets with no differentiation or feedback.’

That’s not an education. Nobody expects for a minute that anything is different now, that schools have something better to offer.

If they had offered more, I’d be happy for that to continue to some degree.

It was an absolute shitshow.

I agree. Plus the total exclusion of so many years with the government so proud of the million in showed that no one was going to advocate for your dc’s education if they were the ones missing out. It’s made people more adamant that school / education can’t be exclusive and closed to so many.

@CKBJ

I have read the Chris Whitty “speech” and watched it on sky, agree with op. I think we are all aware that the actual risk to children is low and no one is is actually saying keep schools shut (well maybe a few). No doubt this is part of the latest government propaganda.

I wish Witty acknowledged the following:

1. The risk to families, especially vulnerable by sending their children to school

1. The anxiety some children are under as they are scared they are going o bring the virus home to their families

1. The risk to teachers

1. Distinguish between a child say of 5years and one of 15years

1. How the acknowledged risk to families and the wider community can be mitigated to prevent a very likely rise in cases rather than waiting for a rise to happen

ABSOLUTELY!

[quote NotAKaren]@Morfin With your experience what would you suggest we do about schools? [/quote]
My job is not to keep the masses happy but to keep those under my care safe. What I have implemented in my workplace, with co-operation with those that actually do the job, has not made my employers happy but will keep those employed as safe as possible. There is of course risk, there is cost, however we have done all that is possible to keep the company profitable and retain our staff and keep them safe.

If I was in charge of schools I would mandate masks in corridors (I would have mobilized local groups to make face masks for all students back in June) . I would make part time learning for senior schools, those that could not work from home (week in school week out) I would house in community buildings this would be childcare not teaching. I would fund laptops for those that need it (those that say there are no funds don't seem to baulk st EOTHO)
I would make sure that primary had enough sinks, I would also increase funding to provide wrap around care, knowing that the funding cost would be cost effective when allowing parents to work/support for children. I would allow those that were clinically vulnerable to stay at home without fines and support their learning. I would increase school budgets to allow for extra cleaning.

@onedayinthefuture

I'm absolutely going to get flamed for this but anyone who doesn't feel safe sending their kids back, they can home school them or pay for a tutor? Any teachers who don't feel safe, they can stop working until the pandemic is over. It's easy. Schools will have to fill the gaps in the meantime but it will be managed.

We risk being fined or losing the effing school place. There are massive problems with this for our kids.

Morfin - can we put you in charge please? That's pretty much everything that I have been saying! But who listens to a mere teacher

Morfin all sounds good only thing I would question is whether this would be good enough for exam year children and overly disadvantage state v private.

I would make part time learning for senior schools, those that could not work from home (week in school week out)

@CountessFrog

It’s a shame that schools didn’t make a better job of part time of online learning between March - July.

Unfortunately the experience of many parents/children was ‘online worksheets with no differentiation or feedback.’

That’s not an education. Nobody expects for a minute that anything is different now, that schools have something better to offer.

If they had offered more, I’d be happy for that to continue to some degree.

It was an absolute shitshow.

But we have been over and over this. Schools were given so little guidance and support. At my school a large proportion of our students don’t have access to tech for example. We were focused on providing food boxes for a large number of our vulnerable families. We had as many in as we could but most travel from relatively far away on public transport.

Some schools/teachers did better than others, but there was no joined up thinking. Given time (which there has been) things could have been planned much better going forward - I’ve probably done LESS planning than before these holidays because until the middle of this week I had no idea how the school day would work next year. Now I do, I have approx a week to try and get ready to teach in a totally different and unfamiliar environment. Why is it so late? Because the guidance constantly changes and gets released at the last minute.

We needed strong leadership and guidance laid out from the start - I know full well that given this back in June my school and colleagues could have planned effectively.

We still don’t know about some issues, my headteacher is still trying to confirm and clarify certain issues. It isn’t good enough and it is immensely frustrating.

@MarshaBradyo

Morfin all sounds good only thing I would question is whether this would be good enough for exam year children and overly disadvantage state v private.

I would make part time learning for senior schools, those that could not work from home (week in school week out)

Given the time to plan it might have been feasible to have more time in school for example classes possibly? Or with money invested into tech for this that need it or to fund the childcare/somewhere safe to work aspect for those that needed it.

@MarshaBradyo

Morfin all sounds good only thing I would question is whether this would be good enough for exam year children and overly disadvantage state v private.

I would make part time learning for senior schools, those that could not work from home (week in school week out)

This is a prime example of those that are doing the job know what is needed. I would listen to teachers, I can see why exam years would need extra teaching. I would investigate the benefit of smaller classes on attainment, smaller classes may mitigate the need for extra lessons. If it was shown that extra lessons were essential I'd look into other ways of delivering these lessons. For example Theaters are struggling and getting govt funding to stay closed, even with transportation costs educating older years would be cost effective in the theater. I do not understand why the government will not broaden their plans.

Anecdata, but from my year 10 small groups last term - it was amazing! I honestly believe that smaller teaching groups will more than compensate for fewer hours in the classroom.

I don’t know, my ds has a smaller class for one of his subjects already, it’s complex and he needs to be taught it rather than video presentations (admittedly he had no teacher online lessons for this subject so any actual class would be better than nothing).

I did see a pp from a teacher that they found it hard not to live mark due to SD, so as long as this is recognised to be even worse when you have the barrier of a screen - part time school plus screen may not be the answer:

I like the theatres idea, but you need the teachers.

After the A level fiasco it’s so easy to see how state school children can have their life path scuppered if their learning and outcome isn’t closely considered and focussed on. I’d loathe for them to be let down next year too. (Although they did reverse it it’s true, harder if education is missed).

Yes but by smaller do you mean 20 something rather than 30 something?
From A level experience you really need under 16 for the smaller size to be effective.

I’m not sure of exact number, he said ten to 15 but have to allow for off the cuff question rather than him actually counting. But I know he needs to be taught the subject and what he had access to was just not cutting it.

Oh absolutely. But I really think seeing and teaching kids regularly, in small groups, setting consolidation work for home, etc will more than compensate for reducing in class time. And will be infinitely better than in school / out of school / in school on an ad hoc basis if we don't do anything to try to minimise transmission.

I’m sure you’re right, Hercule, but it doesn’t change the fact that millions of children have been without an education since March.

Some schools did rise to the challenge. As an example, I have friends with a son in a leading independent school in the north west. He was due to sit GCSEs. When they were cancelled, he was offered a full time online timetable of live lessons leading into A level. So he is starting his A levels now at an added advantage to other y12 students.

It does seem that the technology exists to provide alternative schooling, but in the face of ‘advice and guidance’ from the government, some schools did what they could, were innovative, tried to educate the children. Largely those where parents were paying fees.

For the majority however, no education was provided. So there was no level playing field, and the government know this, and they know it would be the same again if they closed schools now, or allowed ‘blended learning’ or ‘part time attendance.’ Because the part of the time the child was at home, they are not receiving face to face tuition. And ‘blended learning’ is a euphemism for ‘part time attendance.’ Unless you are in a private school.

It would surely have been different if state schools had done the same as their private counterparts. There would have been other challenges - not least engaging ‘hard to engage’ children, however it is vastly unfair to disadvantage all state school pupils because some sections of society are unwilling or unable to take personal responsibility to ensure that their children engage. It was ever thus, many children fail to attend, but we don’t deny others an education on that basis.

I’m confused how private schools were allowed to educate children when I believe (from MN) that state schools were expressly instructed NOT to provide education.

@CountessFrog

I’m sure you’re right, Hercule, but it doesn’t change the fact that millions of children have been without an education since March.

Some schools did rise to the challenge. As an example, I have friends with a son in a leading independent school in the north west. He was due to sit GCSEs. When they were cancelled, he was offered a full time online timetable of live lessons leading into A level. So he is starting his A levels now at an added advantage to other y12 students.

It does seem that the technology exists to provide alternative schooling, but in the face of ‘advice and guidance’ from the government, some schools did what they could, were innovative, tried to educate the children. Largely those where parents were paying fees.

For the majority however, no education was provided. So there was no level playing field, and the government know this, and they know it would be the same again if they closed schools now, or allowed ‘blended learning’ or ‘part time attendance.’ Because the part of the time the child was at home, they are not receiving face to face tuition. And ‘blended learning’ is a euphemism for ‘part time attendance.’ Unless you are in a private school.

It would surely have been different if state schools had done the same as their private counterparts. There would have been other challenges - not least engaging ‘hard to engage’ children, however it is vastly unfair to disadvantage all state school pupils because some sections of society are unwilling or unable to take personal responsibility to ensure that their children engage. It was ever thus, many children fail to attend, but we don’t deny others an education on that basis.

I’m confused how private schools were allowed to educate children when I believe (from MN) that state schools were expressly instructed NOT to provide education.

There is so much untruth in here. My Year 11 state school.form all received preparatory work from their Post-16 setting. Every one of our classes received work (not much of it live because so many of them were unable to access it). Everything that was submitted marked and feedback given.

I mean, I know Mumsnet provides a platform for disgruntled parents to claim otherwise, but I'd love to hear from the actual teachers who weren't setting and marking work, because I'm not sure I believe in their existence.

but I'd love to hear from the actual teachers who weren't setting and marking work, because I'm not sure I believe in their existence.

Why do you need to hear from teachers who haven’t done it? Probably less likely to post about it on here. Secondary was different, but primary we had no marking.

@CountessFrog
I’m confused how private schools were allowed to educate children when I believe (from MN) that state schools were expressly instructed NOT to provide education.

Where exactly have you seen teachers saying they were expressly told not to provide education?

We were told not to cover new content. That is not however, the same as providing no education. In my subject it is a spiral curriculum anyway, so going over previous topics in more depth, or consolidation work, is just as good for future years as new content.

Dcs’ primary set work and provided a full curriculum online. However I saw a couple of other parents on a local Facebook page claiming that no work was being set. Which was a lie. I felt really bad for the teachers who were working all hours to teach in school and remotely when I saw that.

We were emailed basic LCD work with no marking or other contact.

We used Oak Academy which was pretty good (chose year).

I’d say the school didn’t educate but I was able to educate using online provision. Tg I would have had a much unhappier child without it.