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Daily numbers, graphs, analysis thread 15

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 13/08/2020 21:37

Welcome to thread 15 of the daily updates

Resource links:

Uk dashboard deaths, cases, hospitals, tests - 4 nations, LAs, English regions
Slides & data UK govt pressers
UK added daily by PHE & DHSC
PHE Surveillance report infections & watchlists every Thursday with sep. infographic
ONS England infection surveillance report
ONS UK death stats each Tuesday
ECDC rolling 14-day incidence EEA & UK
Daily ECDC country detail UK
Worldometer UK page
Plot FT graphs compare countries deaths, cases, raw / million pop
Covidly.com world summary & graphs
Plot COVID Graphs Our World in Data test positivity etc

We welcome factual, data driven, and civil discussions from all contributors 📈 📉 📊 👍

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Thread gallery
104
BigChocFrenzy · 19/08/2020 12:45

"The numbers I saw previously seemed to suggest asymptomatic cases vary between 20 and 50%"

The numbers I've seen vary widely - some reports of 80%
and seem to depend a lot on age

Those infected for the last several weeks are mostly young, who have the highest rate of asymptomatic cases

Until we have evidence, I would believe the ONS rather than our own suspicions,
as we obviously have far less access to the raw data and to experts in the field

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BigChocFrenzy · 19/08/2020 12:53

I admit it would be good if asymptomatic cases are very high, as this would mean far more people with T cells activated against COVID
and hence much less severe symptoms

So maybe I am being biased by my hope for this weighting my assessment

We need more data from serology tests for IgM antibodies (indicating current infection) accompanying swab test

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BigChocFrenzy · 19/08/2020 12:58

imo, the main reason that cases are likely underestimated is that people don't go for testing in the first place
their symptoms are too mild to bother
and / or they have strong financial / job / caring / other personal reasons for staying well away from tests and the possibility of having to isolate

They remain under the radar
... and think how many people are in the precariat, many in public-facing jobs

Those volunteering for ONS tests are - despite ONS efforts to get a respresentative sample - a self-selecting group who would be prepared / can afford to isolate

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TeaInTheGarden · 19/08/2020 15:38

m.youtube.com/watch?feature=share&v=D5Z6wdu1eI0

A really interesting video here with good info about T cells and immunity in general, it was posted in the good news thread, thought some people here may find it as interesting as I did.

MRex · 19/08/2020 16:13

812 cases, 16 deaths.
Wales need to sort out their hospitalisation data, it already looks silly and will be a mess in winter.

Racoonworld · 19/08/2020 16:16

That’s low for midweek cases isn’t it? I thought they would have been higher given everything opening up but maybe this is good news?

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 19/08/2020 16:26

Looking at how much Germany’s cases have come down after a few recent higher bits it is clear that it is possible to get on top of outbreaks and they don’t inevitably have to spread out of control, at least for now with weather good and schools shut.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 19/08/2020 16:34

(Oh, I may have spoken too soon looking at the weekly average.)

Firefliess · 19/08/2020 16:38

The 7 day average has fallen for the third day in a row, which is good. And that's despite rates of testing still being high

alreadytaken · 19/08/2020 17:00

Lockdown date was 23 March " it was not until 23 March 2020 that Boris Johnson told the country that people ‘must’ stay at home and certain businesses must close." First rugby matches were cancelled before Cheltenham.

Italy match cancelled before 7 March, Wales v Scotland cancelled 13 March. Cheltenham was 16-19 March, Crufts was 5-8 March.

A full list of sporting events cancelled with dates is here www.bbc.co.uk/sport/51605235

Matt Hancocok has started to claim lockdown began on 16 March - but conveniently forgets Cheltenham still went ahead.

There is a study on the studies thread that had quite a high rate of asymptomatic tests in the 65+. The ONS study, pretty sure I've seen this said, weights results for the age of participants (because they probably dont get many very elderly volunteers). I'd take that as the most reliable estimate. Anyone know how many elderly participants are in the Zoe ap and if they weight results?

boys3 · 19/08/2020 17:43

@MRex

812 cases, 16 deaths. Wales need to sort out their hospitalisation data, it already looks silly and will be a mess in winter.
of those 812 cases, 707 in England so almost now in line with England's proportion of the UK population.

In England 449 with a specimen date of Monday. Wednesday reporting is the first day that Monday's case numbers start really appearing , day -2 reporting typically around 50% or more of a day's cases. Sooooooo cautiously optimistic; 1318 cases with a specimen date of Monday 10th in England - I'd hope as the next few days play out Monday of this week will end up below the 1000 mark and several hundred lower than last Monday's specimen date cases.

wintertravel1980 · 19/08/2020 17:56

Cheltenham was 16-19 March

Cheltenham this year was March 10-13.

March 16-19 are the dates for 2021. Officially the event is still on.

Racoonworld · 19/08/2020 18:03

How do today’s cases compare to last Wednesday?

PatriciaHolm · 19/08/2020 18:05

@Racoonworld

How do today’s cases compare to last Wednesday?
Last weds was 1,009. So down some 20%.
PatriciaHolm · 19/08/2020 18:06

@alreadytaken

Lockdown date was 23 March " it was not until 23 March 2020 that Boris Johnson told the country that people ‘must’ stay at home and certain businesses must close." First rugby matches were cancelled before Cheltenham.

Italy match cancelled before 7 March, Wales v Scotland cancelled 13 March. Cheltenham was 16-19 March, Crufts was 5-8 March.

A full list of sporting events cancelled with dates is here www.bbc.co.uk/sport/51605235

Matt Hancocok has started to claim lockdown began on 16 March - but conveniently forgets Cheltenham still went ahead.

There is a study on the studies thread that had quite a high rate of asymptomatic tests in the 65+. The ONS study, pretty sure I've seen this said, weights results for the age of participants (because they probably dont get many very elderly volunteers). I'd take that as the most reliable estimate. Anyone know how many elderly participants are in the Zoe ap and if they weight results?

The app has around 4m users, and this is what they say about weighting - We are only able to invite those who are using the app for COVID testing, and our user base is not fully representative of the entire country. So, our estimates are slightly biased towards the demographic and behavioural characteristics of our app users, although we adjust for age and deprivation when extrapolation to UK population
boys3 · 19/08/2020 18:18

7 day average for England based on specimen date since 22nd June; significantly bumped up by the cases last week. Given today's data file hope to see that start to show a downward shift this week.

Worth repeating again that the upward trend in cases over the past few weeks has not been reflected in hospitalisations

Daily numbers, graphs, analysis thread 15
alreadytaken · 19/08/2020 18:28

oops - OK I have to let Matt Hancock off on Cheltenham. Still international sports events were being cancelled, even if a few events that only involved uk teams went ahead. A reminder of what else was being called off by people more sensible than those responsible for Cheltenham www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/coronavirus-uk-cancelled-sport-music-festivals-events-latest-postponed-a9402811.html

alreadytaken · 19/08/2020 18:51

Someone queried whether we believe the government figures. There have been a lot of delays in publication recently. There have also been some very rapid drops in, say, Calderdale and Wakefield. You can get rapid drops if LAs get a grip but not convinced the figures for every local authority are right yet, although it would be good if they are.

Reastie · 19/08/2020 20:34

I’m assuming hospitalisations haven’t increased as cases have Atm because it’s effecting more younger people so generally less likely to need hospitalisation, and that cases are milder in summer (?).

SellFridges · 19/08/2020 21:32

The lower levels of hospitalisation will be related to earlier diagnosis, earlier and improved treatment, and the lower age profile. Remember that back in March you couldn’t get a test unless you were a Premier League manager, treatment was a paracetamol, and it was rampant across all age profiles.

wintertravel1980 · 19/08/2020 21:35

I am following the twitter account of Dr Ron Daniels, an ICU consultant from Birmingham. He has been treating COVID patients from early March so he has got extensive first hand knowledge of the virus. His current observations are:

  • The patients do not seem to be getting "as sick"
  • Those who are currently in intensive care are actually older than during the peak, but appear to be less severely ill
  • The decrease in mortality cannot be explained by a single factor.

In general, theories potentially explaining reduction in mortality include:

-reduced viral load contributed to by social distancing & decent weather (and mask wearing?)
-a younger population contracting the virus in the community
-virus becoming less virulent (in his opinion, it would be too early for significant mutations)
-the most vulnerable affected early

twitter.com/SepsisUK/status/1294191246366433282

whenwillthemadnessend · 19/08/2020 21:40

How exciting Zoe is almost under 20,000 cases. I can't wait to see those numbers in the teens.

BigChocFrenzy · 19/08/2020 21:40

re The v low deaths rates atm:

In the early days and at peak infections / deaths, we were all massively under-counting cases compared to now,
when we are testing more and targeting those tests too.

I've been looking at the attached useful table today for Germany's test figures over the weeks
(tests not people, btw and to make it even more complicated, over the last week there were another 80,000 tests at points of entry which may not yet be fully included in the test totals !)

Anyway, positivity at peak COVID with > 30,000 weekly cases was about 9 x higher than at present
So maybe we should be comparing deaths and hospitalisations for very roughly [270,000 = 30,000 x 9] cases at a peak week vs the 8,400 cases last week
(and then multiply both by 2-3 to get "true # cases)

i.e. by my rough estimation, at peak Germany had about 30 x the current # cases
i.e. lockdown and social distancing have currently reduced cases x 30

The UK would have a similar reduction, probably even more due to its v long lockdown
That and having finally sorted out testing, track & trace is why GB is finally showing the expected epidemiological benefit of being an island - that we see in other islands - and having far less of a rise in cases than its neighbours

Deaths in Germany for many weeks have been in single figures, say average 5 compared to peak of about 350

Then consider that the average age of infection has dropped about 12 years since peak
==> the current single figure deaths look very understandable
==> the low deaths around UK / Europe make sense

imo, even if the age of infection increases a lot over winter, no European country should return to anything like the peak deaths, providing we don't return to anything like the (real) peak cases

Daily numbers, graphs, analysis thread 15
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BigChocFrenzy · 19/08/2020 21:45

So we are currently seeing the massive reduction in cases brought about by lockdown, followed by masks & continuing SD

The rise in cases on the continent is very concerning, but cases are likely still at least an order of magnitude below peak cases in Spring

==> also massively decreased viral load, so maybe why people are "less sick" compasred to people of the same age at peak

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BigChocFrenzy · 19/08/2020 21:53

Sweden recorded its highest tally of deaths in the first half of 2020 for 150 years

www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/aug/19/coronavirus-live-news-global-cases-near-22m-as-wall-street-record-defies-economic-gloom?page=with:block-5f3d47d48f089b3b72acfef0#block-5f3d47d48f089b3b72acfef0

the country’s national statistics office said on Wednesday, according to Reuters.
...
Deaths were about 10% higher than the average for the period over the past five years, the Sweden’s statistics office said.
In April the number of deaths was almost 40% higher than average due to a surge in coronavirus-related fatalities.

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