Elimination / zero covid approach

[Orangeblossom78]

The Guardian have been going on about this but they seem vague and do not say how they plan to do this along with not totally locking down the country again.

It seems vague and about being 'stricter' can anyone tell me what they mean and how it would work. They talk about places like New Zealand and Iceland which are quite different to hear. and even those places have a small amount of cases.

I just don’t think you can compare countries meaningfully. As stated, some test more than others. If you test 100 people and find 50 cases, that ‘s 50% of people with coronavirus. Test 10 people and find 1 case, that’s 10%. Simplified, I know, but that’s what it amounts to.

And, of course, many countries are economical with the truth. Austria was a major site of initial skiing outbreaks, but said nothing. Switzerland remain schtum on their situation.

Moreover, countries are different. Apart from Stockholm, Sweden is poles apart from the UK (except maybe the Scottish isles). British people seem to be particularly non compliant and I don’t think the media here helps. No “we’re in this together” but constant screaming/whining/stoking up the “it’s not faaaaiiirrr” mentality.

@Mylittlepony374

Kiwi overseas here. I usually take my kids back to NZ twice a year, Xmas and June/July. We skyped my parents this morning & while they are sad that there's limited chance of us visiting anytime soon, they fully support the border measures as do I. What's important at the current time is protecting NZ borders, not my holiday. If I want to move home for good I still can- there's no quarantine charge for Kiwis coming back in for more than 90 days. If I want to go for a shorter time I still can, I just have to pay for my own 2 week isolation charge and to be fair, why should the government pay there for me? I haven't paid any tax in NZ or contributed to the economy in any real way in at least 5 years. It's more important to me that my family in NZ live 'normal' lives than that I visit them. And the economy is not fucked.

But aren't you at least cross you now cannot visit your homeland or your parents for what could be years? Unless you are prepared to stump up thousands of dollars? And your parents can never visit you? What if something happens to a loved one there? Or with your family?

I guess you could save up but it will cost you thousands with a family.
I would keep a savings account to one side specifically for this possibility as I would hate money to get in the way of rushing to see a parent.

Personally I would be furious in your shoes , say I lived overseas and was effectively barred from returning back to the UK without it costing me thousands of £.

• but if you are ok with that then who am I to argue!

Just don;t want the UK GOV to get any ideas to do the same here

"No “we’re in this together” but constant screaming/whining/stoking up the “it’s not faaaaiiirrr” mentality."

The British attitude has really shocked me tbh. The constant whining. Whining about lockdown. About masks. About schools going back. About schools not going back.

I feel like British society has basically completely fractured.

Yes it is a complex mixture of health, demographics, geography and ethos of the population, and also isolation / islands and access to health care.

Thank you this has been interesting, I wondered when I started the OP why there was this focus with the Guardian about the zero covid policy and thing I have more of an idea now. Still not quite sure about how they feel it would work here though given the nature of the UK in general but we will have to see what happens going forward I guess.

ItWas I hear you but I think it’s much worse on here. Every announcement, even positive ones, just gets negative threads. We’re not so bad in rl ime. People getting on with it here, a lot of consideration still.

Itwas there is something about what you mention in the news today, www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53584856

Close the borders, limit travel like Wales, keep schools closed and as many wfh as we can. Drive cases right down and people will feel safe to shop etc again to support the economy and those shielding can have some form of outside life again.

@MarshaBradyo

ItWas I hear you but I think it’s much worse on here. Every announcement, even positive ones, just gets negative threads. We’re not so bad in rl ime. People getting on with it here, a lot of consideration still.

in irl life people are nothing like on social media. I am enjoying life right now, wearing my mask, going to work with a smile on my face, no dramas, meeting family, dinner out with friends, all I can see is people respecting the rules and being generally nice to each other. also, having fab days out in London with the kids

There is a misconception that British people are non-compliant and badly behaved, which the government is promoting and taking advantage of to avoid implementing proper rules. Actually before Covid-19, the reputation of British people was that we were very keen on proper queuing and quite good a rules. Good drivers who usually followed road rules compared to Italy and France etc. That was our reputation. The government started saying that lockdown wouldn't work here because British people like to be free and won't follow rules. Utter crap and very harmful in the battle against Covid-19.

But I do think it is very "unkind" to leave thousands and thousands of NZ's overseas with no prospect of returning home. I am not sure how anyone could argue otherwise.

Then why didn't they come home when it was suggested, and when there were far more flights? Why should those of us who did the hard yards to get to this stage fund those who couldn't be bothered to come back earlier?

@sashagabadon
No, not at all cross. I can visit them. I just have to pay more than I usually would.
I guess my attitude is that this is not about me. This is about ensuring my family, friends and fellow Kiwis living in NZ get to continue to live their normal lives.
Those of us Kiwis that live overseas (long haul) do so knowing that getting home is always expensive. It costs around €6000 for me and the two kids (depending on season). So in my mind we should always ensure we have enough to cover flights in case of emergency. I save weekly for it. This just means you need to add more to that pot.
It's of course not ideal. I want to go back and visit. It's sad. But it's not about me.
And, as I say, I've not paid taxes there for years - why should I expect the government to pay for anything for me?

@Mylittlepony374 - it was good to read that you feel that way as that seems to be why a lot of NZers are unhappy about the returning citizens - i.e. the fact that they have been paying taxes in other countries, but expect the NZ govt to fund their quarantine.

I'm glad to see we have been able to have a rational conversation here which is not always the case with the virus discussions!

Yes, it's good to see a pleasant discussion without the name calling you see on some other threads!

If elimination were that easy then lots of countries would have achieved it already.

Japan (like Hong Kong and South Korea) has a relatively low % of elderly people living in residential care homes.

It was not inevitable and unavoidable that thousands of deaths would take place in care homes. Better PPE, isolation of those who were unwell, planning and taking precautions about staff moving between sites would have made a huge difference.

But for a many care homes that would have required assistance from the government, who simply had made no preparations or planning, and were extremely reluctant to do so until long into lockdown.

@neutralintelligence

There is a misconception that British people are non-compliant and badly behaved, which the government is promoting and taking advantage of to avoid implementing proper rules. Actually before Covid-19, the reputation of British people was that we were very keen on proper queuing and quite good a rules. Good drivers who usually followed road rules compared to Italy and France etc. That was our reputation. The government started saying that lockdown wouldn't work here because British people like to be free and won't follow rules. Utter crap and very harmful in the battle against Covid-19.

totally agree!

Yes i agree with that too. Apparently the government were 'surprised' at hoe complaint the UK was with lockdown. We seem quite cautious, I know in my city the ones I see in big groups, not distancing tend to not be from the UK...

@eaglejulesk
I just find that sense of entitlement without contribution odd. And as you've rightly said, we all could have hopped on a plane home in March when the NZ government advised us all to come home. So no real reason to complain now as far as I can see.

And back to care homes - actually it is just as possible for care home residents to be better protected against Covid-19 than the rest of the population since they are effectively self-isolating in one location anyway. it should have been relatively straight-forward to prevent the virus getting into care homes and then spreading so badly. Being in a care home should not have been such a risk factor. We had several months as a country with buying or manufacturing PPE, putting in place precautions, but did none of it.

[quote Mylittlepony374]@sashagabadon
No, not at all cross. I can visit them. I just have to pay more than I usually would.
I guess my attitude is that this is not about me. This is about ensuring my family, friends and fellow Kiwis living in NZ get to continue to live their normal lives.
Those of us Kiwis that live overseas (long haul) do so knowing that getting home is always expensive. It costs around €6000 for me and the two kids (depending on season). So in my mind we should always ensure we have enough to cover flights in case of emergency. I save weekly for it. This just means you need to add more to that pot.
It's of course not ideal. I want to go back and visit. It's sad. But it's not about me.
And, as I say, I've not paid taxes there for years - why should I expect the government to pay for anything for me?[/quote]
yes I do understand the tax payer aspect and I understand why that could piss off current NZealanders for the reasons you give

But on balance I prefer here - where quarantine is not enforced so vigorously (obvious disadvantages to this too) in hotels.
UK citizens can travel or those living overseas can return home (from non- exempt countries) and can quarantine in their own home or with relatives so no extra costs involved for the tax payer or anyone else and as a result no barriers to returning UK citizens to pop back or stay however long they want.

Two ways of managing the same problem I guess. Both have clear advantages and clear disadvantages to their citizens.

UK citizens can travel or those living overseas can return home (from non- exempt countries) and can quarantine in their own home or with relatives so no extra costs involved for the tax payer or anyone else and as a result no barriers to returning UK citizens to pop back or stay however long they want.

Originally people entering the country were able to organise their own quarantine measures, but as you can imagine some wouldn't do so - there was a case of some tourists arriving in the country one day and heading up a mountain in a helicopter the following day - so it was realised that stricter measures were required. We are not prepared to leave it to chance now that community transmission has ceased.

It’s a tough tradeoff. New Zealand’s economy is fucked but I’d give anything to be living a completely normal life there right now

It isn't a trade off. You can't choose Covid or the Economy. The Economy won't recover until it is safe for people to go out. I don't know why people pretend we can just open everything up and the economy will recover.

Sweden has provided us with the proof that it isn't lockdown that is affecting the economy, it is covid.

Would the NZ government put measure in place to help it's indigenous populations perhaps and other vulnerable people perhaps as a way to more forward I wonder?

Is there a concern over healthcare given they are remote and isolated perhaps? I'm trying to understand the way forward and reasoning behind their decisions.

@sashagabadon
Yep, different approaches, different impacts. It's an unprecedented pandemic so no one really has the right answer.

It's an unprecedented pandemic so no one really has the right answer.

But some definitely have the wrong answer.