Elimination / zero covid approach

[Orangeblossom78]

The Guardian have been going on about this but they seem vague and do not say how they plan to do this along with not totally locking down the country again.

It seems vague and about being 'stricter' can anyone tell me what they mean and how it would work. They talk about places like New Zealand and Iceland which are quite different to hear. and even those places have a small amount of cases.

No need to apolojize

Out of interest in NZ has there been a health campaign to lose weight like here?

How strange; just randomly read this about how they are offering pizza to people named "Karen" or something. How funny maybe not then!

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-53589897

elimination is impossible for us now - or at least the price we would have to pay is too high now. Yes we are an island - but people have been kayaking over from France to us - and it's swimmable from France too - so not exactly remote

Also, look at the price of elimination for NZ.
They are only allowing NZ'ers in and those with certain visas. There's loads of instances of a very harsh treatment to everyone else - people stuck all over the world not allowed back , even though their lives/homes are in NZ. Some stories are very upsetting but NZ says no.
Are we prepared to be so harsh? We couldn't be - the media would lose their minds.
Also, they are now going to implement a £3k (NZ) per adult - about £500 per child charge to returners for an enforced quarantine for even NZealanders returning from anywhere. Whatever the reason, compassionate or not. A family of 4 could be paying about £5k NZ to return home.
No way could we do that.

Apparently there are 1 million NZealanders not in NZ right now - some of whom may want to return to see family or whatever and are now faced with this cost - so stopping them in effect.
It all sounds quite inhumane to me. goodgle #teamofsixmillion for info.
THIS is the price of elimination - an unjust, inhumane and unkind immigration system. And for the foreseeable future as they have no choice to maintain elimination.

And no chance whatsoever of any overseas holidays / visiting relatives for those in NZ either, as they'd have to pay this cost on return.

Be careful what you wish for - is the message I get!

That sounds similar to Guernsey then where our relative lives alone. Mixed blessing. She has family here in UK and worried about travelling here and back due to harsh penalties and even jail on the island.

@Turangawaewae

I'm in NZ too and I'm the only person I know who has lost their job. I don't think our economy is as bad as many other places. Lots of us are traveling in NZ and weirdly enjoying the lack of overseas tourists. This isn't what I would have expected from myself, or other kiwis, as we are generally pretty welcoming. I think it helps that our economy was in good shape under labour so we can afford to borrow now.

Right now, most of us are okay with the borders being shut. In another two years it might be different. But we have no idea what the world will look like then.

what do you think about the quarantining charge that is to be implemented? Genuinely interested . I assume if you and all your family are in NZ it it ok but if you had a returning relative you'd feel differently? I am getting my info from a NZ colleague in UK that desperately wants to return to NZ, to see her parents and in effect, she can't now.

I then read about it generally, there's a few articles on the Guardian about residents that went overseas in March and now have been stopped from returning - it all seems very harsh to me and not something the UK GOV could even think of doing - just too many people, and too many people that move around Europe freely.

Out of interest in NZ has there been a health campaign to lose weight like here?

If you mean regarding covid, no, nothing that I've heard

What is the plan going forward, for the future I mean?

@sashagabadon - it's not just NZ, parts of Australia are already charging people for their quarantine.

Also, NZ citizens were advised to come home back in March - why have people who have homes and lives here left it so late? The general feeling from many here is that people who have been living and working (and paying taxes) overseas have a bit of a cheek wanting the govt to pay for their quarantine when they come back now. I'm not saying that is right, but it is the feeling from many.

If you look at Worldometer it shows that deaths and rates in Sweden are now falling, and things starting to return to more of a normal state too, starting to open borders to neighbouring countries, how does this compare I wonder for their future.

www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/

Sweden has lower rates of obesity as seen here it is at the top of the table, with NZ and USA near the bottom, which might also have an impact.

www.oecd.org/sweden/obesityandtheeconomicsofpreventionfitnotfat-swedenkeyfacts.htm

Fascinating insights @sashagabadon and flying in the face of the Jacinda cult. You’re quite right, were her policies implemented here people would indeed lose their fucking minds.

I'm in NZ. Before this thread gets overrun with NZ hatred my two cents is.

NZ got lucky with elimination. The government has said that they didn't expect it but we needed space for our heath system to cope.

We were forced into lockdown with very little community transmission. And everyone was scared as we were watching what was happening. A lot of parents had already pulled their kids from school before lockdown.

NZ's lockdown was far more strict than anywhere else and we all pretty much complied. But we had the advantage of good weather and larger properties so staying home for most wasn't intolerable.

Even with a stricter lockdown and no real community transmission it took over 6 weeks for all the cases to come out. I can't even imagine how long a strict lockdown would take with sustained community transmission in place.

I think you only really get one lockdown where people comply. If you look at what's happening in Melbourne at the moment it appears that people just aren't complying like they did for the first one. The same thing will happen in NZ if we have another outbreak.

Sadly I don't have faith that we will be able to keep it at bay. We have had numerous people escape from Quarantine in the last few weeks and that's being an island nation with clear routes to entry!

@eaglejulesk

i noticed in a chart NZ has a generally high BMI which was quite surprised about. Maybe they are concerned about levels of obesity

TBH I have never heard concern about obesity mentioned in NZ (re covid I mean, obviously there is concern overall) - certainly nothing like on the level that people in the UK seem to be focusing on it.

We are obsessive about it in this country. It is just another way to blame the individuals in a population in my opinion. There are a number of countries with similar obesity levels to the UK . This cannot explain our high death rates. I am not saying it doesn't contribute a bit but I don't believe it makes the level of difference we have seen

[quote eaglejulesk]@sashagabadon - it's not just NZ, parts of Australia are already charging people for their quarantine.

Also, NZ citizens were advised to come home back in March - why have people who have homes and lives here left it so late? The general feeling from many here is that people who have been living and working (and paying taxes) overseas have a bit of a cheek wanting the govt to pay for their quarantine when they come back now. I'm not saying that is right, but it is the feeling from many.[/quote]
yes I get that is likely what those in NZ think. I understand that thinking but I do think it is very harsh and unfair and goes against the "kind" nation we understood NZ to be. It's the opposite of "kind" to me .

But it is the price of elimination and why the UK can never go for elimination as we just couldn't politically charge returning people thousands of £ to quarantine them like this.

The rest of Europe would go mad too - look at the fuss Spain has made just by our GOV saying Brits returning from Spain have to quarantine for 2 weeks .
The Spanish President was all over the UK airwaves saying how unfair the UK Gov was being - they are desperate for British tourists.
Portugal is furious to be left of the list of safe destinations for British tourists - they want us too.

The Uk can't go it alone with elimination. We are too interlinked with Europe , ROW.

We have had numerous people escape from Quarantine in the last few weeks and that's being an island nation with clear routes to entry!

While that is true they have all also been found again quite quickly!

We should have done as Taiwan did and banned people travelling from China as soon as it became apparent this was an issue. They've had no new cases in three months, nothing is closed, life is normal.

Taiwan have done well. I remember a friend from Taipei sending me a link to how well they were doing back in March. They did introduce central systems post SARS so that us a big help. Plus everyone got a mask for free (daily or not can’t recall).

The other thing I remember being rounded upon on here was questioning WHOs stance on borders at that time.

On whether it was possible for U.K. to close to Europe not sure. We are different to NZ on many ways.

I understand that thinking but I do think it is very harsh and unfair and goes against the "kind" nation we understood NZ to be. It's the opposite of "kind" to me .

I would say it's "kinder" to have done, and continue to do, all that is possible to keep the people who live here as safe from covid as possible. I can't see that the UK govt has done much which would be classed as "kind" to their citizens judging by the threads here where people are worried about their children being off school for so long, people with very high levels of anxiety etc. Maybe harsh measures for a short time which work are better than half-hearted measures which leave behind long term harm.

We can't close to Europe. Brexit aside, too many europeans live here and too many Brits live in Europe
Not to mention the very recent outcry from Spain about imposing a 2 week quarantine for returning Brits

Now imagine that with every other country in Europe!
France would immediately close it's borders with us as that is how Macron plays - and we get a lot of our food via Calais and Portsmouth.
Have you ever been on a ferry - hundreds and hundreds of lorries back and forth all day long - never ending

Closing our borders to acheive "elimination" (which will not happen anyway) is an idea that is completely mad!

@eaglejulesk

I understand that thinking but I do think it is very harsh and unfair and goes against the "kind" nation we understood NZ to be. It's the opposite of "kind" to me .

I would say it's "kinder" to have done, and continue to do, all that is possible to keep the people who live here as safe from covid as possible. I can't see that the UK govt has done much which would be classed as "kind" to their citizens judging by the threads here where people are worried about their children being off school for so long, people with very high levels of anxiety etc. Maybe harsh measures for a short time which work are better than half-hearted measures which leave behind long term harm.

I'm not having a go at NZ. I get there thought process, it just wouldn;t work here in the UK for so many reasons

But I do think it is very "unkind" to leave thousands and thousands of NZ's overseas with no prospect of returning home. I am not sure how anyone could argue otherwise.
And it does go against the idea of NZ we have here, hence I was shocked when my colleague told me about it. So I googled it myself to see if it was true - it was!

But I get if this doesn't affect you or your family personally then you are happy with this policy.

Sasha can’t they fly home and quarantine?

I'm to trying to cultivate bad vibes against NZ just trying to understand the situation and wonder what happens with the future for various places with quite different approaches

Maybe we can learn in the UK as seem to have quite a muddled approach at present

We also have similar obesity rates to NZ and USA as well. Scotland as well, which seems to be aiming for NZ type approach

The obese have a higher rate of ICU admission in younger cases so if you have double to obesity rate in say NZ to Sweden surely that would influence the approach due to the possibility of healthcare and hospitals being overwhelmed- which would be more of a problem anyway possibly on Islands and in rural locations.

www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/19/new-zealand-battles-obesity-epidemic-as-third-fattest-country-in-the-world

More about the NZ situation with obesity here.

Sweden and Holland who have chosen a different approach do have similar health rates in terms of obesity maybe that makes them more confident about following such approaches; Holland have a robust attitude to health and euthanasia, more of a sense of individual choice as well which will influence their approach.

It is all quite interesting.

Japan has much lower obesity too and has done well.

Rates of obesity are highest in the 45-65 age group and the figures among New Zealand’s Maori and Pasifika population peaked at 46% and 67% respectively

And those communities would be more vulnerable to the virus. So I can see how the approach they have is more appropriate perhaps