Elimination / zero covid approach

[Orangeblossom78]

The Guardian have been going on about this but they seem vague and do not say how they plan to do this along with not totally locking down the country again.

It seems vague and about being 'stricter' can anyone tell me what they mean and how it would work. They talk about places like New Zealand and Iceland which are quite different to hear. and even those places have a small amount of cases.

@springrollover

I'm living on an island in the British Isles, our borders shut in March and we have been Covid free for 60 days now. Our schools have been back a while now, we have no social distancing, life is pretty much normal here. But we are isolated in a bubble and our borders can't stay closed forever. We do have a staged plan to open, it's dependent of the uk numbers coming down to I think 1 in 5000. It's cost our economy massively. But we now have our own testing centre on island, track & trace is on the ball. 14 day isolation & if you break it it's £10,000 fine or up to 3 months in prison. Police & locals are shit hot at making sure people stick to it

Wow, well done to the people on your island for achieving that. Wish I lived there too.

@DdraigGoch

The Guardian have been going on about this but they seem vague Pretty much applies to anything the Guardian prints. A vague wishlist without practical solutions.

I'm rather tired of the constant comparisons made between the UK and New Zealand. One is a couple of sparsely populated islands thousands of miles from their nearest neighbour (itself with relatively few cases). The other is the fifth largest economy in the world, heavily overpopulated, 30 miles from the continent with many ferries, trains and flights connecting it (mostly to countries also badly hit), reliant on imports and international commerce to survive.

You cannot make comparisons between countries so different.

The voice of sanity!

There is another solution being floated, we could click our heels together 3 times and say “there’s no covid here”.

It’s been suggested it’s as viable as any other option.

"a decent find test trace isolate and support system"

It seems like this isn't workable in the UK because people moan about lack of privacy.

I'm in NZ too and I'm the only person I know who has lost their job. I don't think our economy is as bad as many other places. Lots of us are traveling in NZ and weirdly enjoying the lack of overseas tourists. This isn't what I would have expected from myself, or other kiwis, as we are generally pretty welcoming. I think it helps that our economy was in good shape under labour so we can afford to borrow now.

Right now, most of us are okay with the borders being shut. In another two years it might be different. But we have no idea what the world will look like then.

Totally agree @Turangawaewae So many on MN are predicting we are all doomed in this part of the world, whereas in actual fact we are just getting on with things pretty much as normal and yes, it is nice not to have overseas tourists for a while, there were too many of them coming here and not always respecting our land. The country isn't in the economic dire straits people seem to think either.

I know someone on Guernsey as well, they are back to normal but unsure about her coming to visit due to the fines etc so she is quite isolated. Interesting to hear about though

i noticed in a chart NZ has a generally high BMI which was quit surprised about. Maybe they are concerned about levels of obesity

interesting to compare to Sweden which has also had it's rates come down with a different approach, while keeping schools open, and recently having the other Scandi countries open borders with them...

Another thing- NZ and Iceland do not tend to have high areas of diversity with populations living closely in multi generational families? as that seems to be where the virus is spreading most quickly here

I suppose demographics matters a lot as well.

I guess it all depends on the individual country. In terms of Sweden, it too tense to a lower population density. Other Scandi countries such as Norway and Denmark do not tend to wear face masks etc but have low rates, again low pop density in most areas and lower overall population

Belgium, (Brussels etc) higher pop density as is Holland, maybe more similar to here in some ways.

Interesting to hear from those on NZ, thanks! I'm not trying to case an argument, just more of a discussion.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_New_Zealand

Interesting about the populations there I can see why it is important for them to stay covid free

Can I just say, it's borders not boarders.

@ChavvySexPond

If you get the infection level low enough then it's safe enough for everyone to live a relatively normal life - which is what we all want isn't it?

I don't understand the negativity.

You need two things: a decent find test trace isolate and support system and a population that understands that this is the best option.

You also need a competent government, and we don't have one

I think we should as a country define what we are hoping to achieve. I have no clue if the government intends to drive cases as low as possible, or accept current numbers of deaths long term.

At the very least we should have proper analysis of costs and benefits of each approach. The economy is hardly thriving now. I get sick of doom mongers saying we can't do what NZ did. Maybe not, but we could do something other than our current flatlining approach.

Britain is starting from a position of 'we can't do anything' rather than 'what can we do'.

@MaxNormal

Can I just say, it's borders not boarders.

Well yes you can, and I can just say that correcting spelling identifies you as a wally.

@ItWasNotOK

"a decent find test trace isolate and support system"

It seems like this isn't workable in the UK because people moan about lack of privacy.

It isn't an either/or, a decent track and trace would deal with privacy can ncerns. The problem is the government gave the contract to a shit private company with no experience.

i noticed in a chart NZ has a generally high BMI which was quite surprised about. Maybe they are concerned about levels of obesity

TBH I have never heard concern about obesity mentioned in NZ (re covid I mean, obviously there is concern overall) - certainly nothing like on the level that people in the UK seem to be focusing on it.

People who say this have little idea how much the UK relies on tourists and foreign students and international travel.

Even NZ is shafted from the lack of students.

It’s not practical. Perhaps if there was a reasonable vaccine on the horizon we could hold out? But is there?

I’m in scotland and there is equally a lot of frustration and resistance to.NS plan of suppression at all costs. Those costs are cancer deaths, suicides, child depression and a destroyed economy.

NZ has a chance to become even more self sufficient, in an uncertain world being able to rely on your island to support your nation is an enviable place to be. Of course it will hit their economy but not as much as people are still spending and living their lives and spending in the country rather than outside it.
The only way we could have got a hold on covid cases would have been to close our borders in March and enforced quarrantine etc with the military.

Dr Google said 1 in 3 adults in NZ are obese, NHS says 1 in 4 adults in UK are obese?

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_obesity_rate this chart lists in order.

Imo Johnson is focussing a lot on the population's characteristics to deflect blame from himself for the government's slow response.

Johnson didn't catch covid because he was overweight, he caught it because it was circulating widely and he didn't take his own government's advice to not shake hands and observe distancing! He may have suffered more due to obesity. But the best thing would be for all people, with any BMI, not to get it.

@MaxNormal

Can I just say, it's borders not boarders.

Thank you, it's been very distracting! If that makes me a wally too, then so be it!

Wally was my attempt not to be too rude,it wasn't the actual thought that went through my head

Really I thought 'pompous twat'

@labyrinthloafer I wear my pomposity with pride!

I know it is borders, sometimes my computer changes words as I write, sorry.

[quote SquirrelFan]@labyrinthloafer I wear my pomposity with pride! [/quote]
And being a twat too?

Surely we could only do this is
A)semi close the boarders for years not weeks with only those who do government sanctioned testing/quarantine in special centres allowed in.
B) test the whole population weekly for months so that they catch all the asymptomatic people. We don’t have anywhere near that level of testing capacity.

Sorry... more boarders not borders. My phone also autocorrects. Hopefully we can move on from this