No prosecution for parents petition - any thoughts?

[sunseekin]

“We deem that absence related to the coronavirus pandemic would meet the grounds prescribed. As long as the school knows where a pupil is and why they aren’t attending, there should be no risk of the pupil losing their school place.”

This was part of the Government’s response to March’s petition (90,000 + signatures) re fines and prosecutions for not attending school due to the coronavirus pandemic.

Given that the pandemic is still very much in full swing does it still apply? Or has this (part of the Coronavirus Act 2020) been caveated or repealed since then??

I know that Gareth announced that school was compulsory and that fines would be a part of that. But it’s always compulsory, but there are still legal reasons why you might not attend.

Fines would obviously be reasonable for someone who was bothered about coronavirus on a Monday but not on a Tuesday, or on holiday because of coronavirus one week but back in school the next. Which is why Gareth may have said fines were a part of things, but the response surely suggests that reasons relating to the pandemic could still be valid legal reasons.

I am at the point where I am pretty confident that I won’t be sending by two school aged children back in September. For family reasons and because I think teachers and students who need to be their for a rest array of reasons (including mental health obviously) deserve to be as safe as possible.

A positive virus mutation or the disappearance of corona would be amazing, but it seems more likely that we have an autumn/winter to get through before things can get better.

I can cope with this, science and medicine (especially recent announcements re treatments) give me hope that better times are around the corner. I’m able to home teach, see it as a way of helping keep schools safer and am now trying to get the logistics clear in my head.

I don’t think it’s fair that we lose their places, I think we only really need to think about living with it when we have seen how it behaves in all the seasons and have a better understanding of longer term impacts.

Here is the link to the full government response.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/300399

Big apologies if this duplicates or has been asked elsewhere, I’m trying to keep up - promise!

Jrobhatch29

You have more faith in the government’s ability to hold to a consistent strategy than I do.

@Hercwasonaroll there would obviously be loads more that needed to be done. And @OpheliasCrayon I get the teacher shortages issue too. I joined during the “those that can teach” and “golden hello” era.

I noticed the bbc was running articles yesterday about why you shouldn’t leave teaching, I suspect more horses are already bolting. I know I would be leaving if this had happened a couple of years ago when I was working and pregnant with my third. Family comes first, especially if nobody is looking out for yours. When I voiced concerns about my eldest’s vulnerable teacher back in March, I was met with “she’s a big girl and can take care of herself”. I really hope teachers take care of themselves if nobody else properly steps up.

I have 17 years of 11-18 teaching under my belt - I assure you my eyes are wide open to the issues. I just think there are a lot of teachers who shouldn’t be expected to have face to face contact come September. Allowing people who can to homeschool and encouraging others would help with address this fact.

I guess I what I was trying to touch on was another issue that I think has its own thread - we are asking too much of our teachers. Whether you agree with this statement or not, the upshot will be that there will be more teachers voting with their feet. Numbers will decline further and probably are as we speak. Treating people properly is the only way to combat this.

Anyway, I’m detailing my own post 😂🤪

I posted because am genuinely wondering if the reason to keep them off due to a pandemic is a valid reason anyway per the governments petition response?? It seems to suggest that this would be the case.

This is the governments response if anyone missed it.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/300399

@OpheliasCrayon

One of the reasons I opposed fines when brought in was the disproportionate pressure only families who already had much to deal with due to family health/disability/other issues.

So whilst I understand why you feel insulted, my personal objection to fines is not confined to covid.

On any occasion my child was offered an award for 100% attendance I wrote and turned it down.

I believe the covid fines will adversely affect families at increased risk from covid.
Through history, a policy often changes when a wider group is affected by issues previously confined to a smaller group. However infuriating, take any improvements to working conditions and flexibility that covid brings! I am very hopeful our appalling sick pay may become untenable.

Do you expect that the school will continue to provide home schooling activities for you and/or to provide catch up provision when they return? If so YABU to keep them at home.

@Jrobhatch29

I asked upthread - what is the likely timeline for a parent who says 'Dear headteacher, I'm not feeling confident enough to send my child'?

People say 'it's school or homeschool' but don't explain the process.

@LaurieMarlow

Hmm I admit to have not thought the implications of GCSE/A level through. You’d have to hope that parents/children in exam years would think very carefully before leaping into a year of homeschooling, but who knows.

Shelving government targets for the year might help. I don’t know if that’s possible. Ni, I know have shelved transfer tests for next year (in some areas at least).

I work in a 6th form and we’ve already had two requests for homeschooling and I anticipate more. Our teachers have a full teaching timetable and at break times are usually on duty. How are they supposed to do this and also run a home school programme which provides the necessary level of teaching required for A Level? State-run secondary schools just don’t have the staffing and resources to simultaneously provide lessons and distance learning.

I think there are questions about whether it is reasonable to keep a school place in this situation when there are others waiting for a place at that school, especially if they currently do not have any school place.

My nephew was out of school for 9 months waiting for a school place (anywhere) and my brother would have been annoyed if someone else was keeping a place but wasn't using it, except in the situation where a child was medically advised to remain at home. Obviously that is an unusual situation but it has to be taken into account.
People always have the option of deregistering and then later re registering.

How are they supposed to do this and also run a home school programme which provides the necessary level of teaching required for A Level?

They wouldn’t need to. In my hypothetical approach, if they choose to homeschool, parents commit to doing it for the year and without support. I think most would think carefully about that under those conditions. Or I hope they would.

I was responding to a question about how that would impact grade targets, which I admit I hadn’t considered. Thinking about it now though, if homeschooled, those grades shouldn’t be counted as ‘school’ grades.

[quote labyrinthloafer]@Jrobhatch29

I asked upthread - what is the likely timeline for a parent who says 'Dear headteacher, I'm not feeling confident enough to send my child'?

People say 'it's school or homeschool' but don't explain the process.[/quote]
I don't understand your question?
Under normal circumstances it can go on for ages but EWOs and potentially social workers would be involved for consistent non attenders. If you want to home school your child you just de register them. There is no process for "I am home schooling until I decide to send them back" because that literally never happens.....ever.
So How would we know what the process would be for this? The real question is when are you going to decide it is okay for them to go back? I am not particularly chuffed that my kids are going back to school but I am not risking their place at an already over subscribed school that they love, for an illness they are incredibly low risk for.

If I didn't send my son to school I would expect either social services to intervene and force me to send him in or the LA to withdraw his funding and so remove his place at his independent specialist school. I don't see why families at maintained schools should expect anything different.

Our society is very low on empathy. It’s worrying

Our society is very low on empathy.

I don’t think that’s fair at all. It’s about logistics, the importance of getting an education and not wanting children to fall through the cracks.

My eldest is starting secondary and frankly the response from the school has been appalling so I am not reassured, and a choice would be great.

However I can totally see if your abusing your child, or a shit parent. There is no incentive to get them back and you off your arse and that’s what’s more important. They’ve had enough of their life irreparably damaged by it.

So you agree that this isn't the perfect answer and lots more would need to be done. Realistically none of what you have said could even begin to be implemented in 5 weeks. Most of your plans involve wholesale social changes.

@EvilPea What has been so bad from them?

@Jrobhatch29 So, it'll go in for ages won't it. So in reality, it is a) school, b) home school, or c) not send them back and start a process.

Takes a very very long time to off roll a student for persistent absence. I'm talking terms.

However in that time you've used up school and LA resources to encourage you back. The school also has a responsibility for your education as you aren't officially off roll. Best thing to do is deregister.

@LaurieMarlow

Our society is very low on empathy.

I don’t think that’s fair at all. It’s about logistics, the importance of getting an education and not wanting children to fall through the cracks.

It is also about not accepting there isn't a blanket solution for complicated situations.

The lack of empathy drives over simplification.

@Hercwasonaroll

Takes a very very long time to off roll a student for persistent absence. I'm talking terms.

However in that time you've used up school and LA resources to encourage you back. The school also has a responsibility for your education as you aren't officially off roll. Best thing to do is deregister.

Why is the best thing to deregister if you want to return in due course?

It is also about not accepting there isn't a blanket solution for complicated situations.

Of course. But do you not see the problems that not enforcing fines presents when it comes to parents who CBA with the education system.

It's shit to keep them off, waste school resources because you are choosing to not send them back. If you're choosing to home school then that should be based on taking the whole year out, as suggested by Laurie.

Very few situations are very complicated. Most kids should be back in school. There is a risk of catching a myriad of infectious diseases at school, not just covid. Measles, chicken pox, flu, HF&M etc.

@LaurieMarlow

It is also about not accepting there isn't a blanket solution for complicated situations.

Of course. But do you not see the problems that not enforcing fines presents when it comes to parents who CBA with the education system.

I understand the problem of non-attendance but the answer isn't fines. It never was imo and covid just spreads the negative aspects of fines further around.

Our attendance increased with the introduction of fines. Turns out that fines was the answer!

I understand the problem of non-attendance but the answer isn't fines.

But how do you suggest ensuring attendance without fines for the disengaged? At a point when schools have a huge amount on their plate.

@Hercwasonaroll

It's shit to keep them off, waste school resources because you are choosing to not send them back. If you're choosing to home school then that should be based on taking the whole year out, as suggested by Laurie.

Very few situations are very complicated. Most kids should be back in school. There is a risk of catching a myriad of infectious diseases at school, not just covid. Measles, chicken pox, flu, HF&M etc.

Which presumably is why Wales are taking the route they are, to avoid wasting resources in the way you describe.

Which is why I think our government have chosen the wrong path.