Schools Reopening?

[ClimbDad]

A major, peer reviewed study into transmission in South Korea has established that tweens and teenagers spread the SARSCOV2 virus more than any other age group.

The study involved more than 65,000 people and used South Korea’s exceptionally effective contact tracing system to look at who brought the virus into households. Tweens and teenagers were the highest index case age group. Younger children transmitted at the same rate as 20-somethings.

This is a large scale, rigorous piece of research that proves children are effective at transmitting the virus. It was conducted in a country that implements strict social distancing and mask wearing among children. The authors say the rate of transmission would have been higher if children weren’t subjected to those measures.

Plans to reopen schools more or less as normal in September will place many lives at risk, and increase the likelihood schools will have to close again. The government needs to acknowledge schools will be highly efficient vectors of viral transmission and change its reopening plans.

Published Paper:
wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/10/20-1315_article

Article on the paper:

www.bloombergquint.com/business/covid-19-spread-fastest-by-teens-and-tweens-korea-study-finds

I have seen some videos on pupils there at school and it is so, so strict. So that is quite surprising to me. I will find one to show you. I wonder how it is being transmitted given how very strict they are.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-asia-52844354/what-is-it-like-being-at-school-in-south-korea

How do you propose the government changes the opening plans?

It’s airborne. Masks will help reduce risk of transmission but they won’t prevent the wearer from catching the virus (unless they are high grade filtration masks) so once the virus is in a classroom it will spread regardless of 1 or 2 metre distance or masks.

If schools open with normal class sizes and large bubbles, the UK will experience a very difficult autumn and winter.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-53329946

I have seen this, too which is about schools in Israel.

www.ft.com/content/224fa625-657c-4ffb-a6a0-a40e04d685b9

The South Korean study suggests that older children may be particularly contagious, although the researchers point out that household contacts could have contracted the virus elsewhere

That doesn't sound definitive to me

Seems to be a different between younger children and older.

@Greysparkles

How do you propose the government changes the opening plans?

The government has been humbled by this virus every step of the way.

“Public mass events are safe.”
“We have plenty of PPE.”
“The disease is mild.”
“There’s no need to quarantine travellers.”
“Masks aren’t necessary.”

Each step of the way, the government has been forced to retreat and change how it deals with the virus.

If the government allows schools to reopen more or less as normal, schools will act as the engine of a second wave, just as they’ve done in Israel. The government will be forced to close schools again, without a national strategy for distance learning.

The government should accept the inevitable and plan for distance learning and reduced attendance now. Instead of lurching from one U-turn to the next, it should plan ahead.

Allowing the virus to spread through schools during cold and flu season will be disastrous, perhaps why Sir Patrick Vallance is forecasting 120,000 deaths in the second wave.

[quote Orangeblossom78]I have seen this, too which is about schools in Israel.

www.ft.com/content/224fa625-657c-4ffb-a6a0-a40e04d685b9[/quote]
Yes, the deputy head of their national health authority told the Israeli parliament that transmission in schools caused their second wave.

@Greysparkles

The South Korean study suggests that older children may be particularly contagious, although the researchers point out that household contacts could have contracted the virus elsewhere

That doesn't sound definitive to me

OK. Let’s learn the hard way.

It concerns me a bit that secondary pupils will be in groups of around 240. Our school has 1200 in total. Whereas primary in groups of 30 (given that the former may be more risk than the latter). I understand most university students are online next year. However think it is not good for secondary to just be online. I have no answers.

If the government allows schools to reopen more or less as normal, schools will act as the engine of a second wave, just as they’ve done in Israel. The government will be forced to close schools again

I think this is exactly what will happen.

Schools need to open.

I'm a teacher
I'm also vulnerable / on the shielding list.
I will be working and my children will be going (and have been going this half term)

As horrible as covid is, there is , in my opinion no excuse to damage children's education, mental health and social development any further. Enough has been done already. Everyone needs to be back in school in September. If there are children who are extremely at risk from covid then appropriate and rigorous provision needs to be made for them but , unless that's the case children ALL need to be back.

The government should accept the inevitable and plan for distance learning and reduced attendance now. Instead of lurching from one U-turn to the next, it should plan ahead.

Absolutely agree. I'm trying really hard to be positive atm as DH has been offered a job in a secondary school starting Sept. They seem to have no idea how they're going to do things when all kids are back. All we know is there will be NO masks allowed..And yet they have to be worn in shops where you'll be in for less than an hour. Teachers will be teaching hundreds of kids in large bubbles with absolutely no protection! How is this right?!
I fear teachers are like lambs to the slaughter.

Balance of risk, as the scientists keep saying.

On the face of it, opening schools is a risky step. But, kids at home not learning much / unable to access IT equipment / no WiFi / chaotic home lives / both parents wfh and unable to help, is not exactly ideal either.

Don’t think there’s really a good solution, apart from some more muddling through until treatment / vaccine is rolled out. I hope if the gov do need to pull back, it’s not immediately education that’s once again thrown under the bus.

I forgot to add to my post schools need to open as normal. Children are being damaged by this and they have a right to normal schooling where they can interact as they should with their friends. Not be made to tip toe round , keeping away from people and learning alone, from faceless teachers.
And again, I am vulnerable etc . I would not want to be wearing PPE and hiding my face at work

But they have planned?
Do you have children at school? Or work in a school?
Guidelines have been set out on bubbles, distancing where possible, when to close a bubble, to provide home learning if needed (although we all know that's a very poor education for alot of students)

What exactly do you want? I suspect you don't want schools to open at all and would Sacrifice the education of millions of children. Which to me isn't an acceptable price to pay

[quote ClimbDad]A major, peer reviewed study into transmission in South Korea has established that tweens and teenagers spread the SARSCOV2 virus more than any other age group.

The study involved more than 65,000 people and used South Korea’s exceptionally effective contact tracing system to look at who brought the virus into households. Tweens and teenagers were the highest index case age group. Younger children transmitted at the same rate as 20-somethings.

This is a large scale, rigorous piece of research that proves children are effective at transmitting the virus. It was conducted in a country that implements strict social distancing and mask wearing among children. The authors say the rate of transmission would have been higher if children weren’t subjected to those measures.

Plans to reopen schools more or less as normal in September will place many lives at risk, and increase the likelihood schools will have to close again. The government needs to acknowledge schools will be highly efficient vectors of viral transmission and change its reopening plans.

Published Paper:
wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/10/20-1315_article

Article on the paper:

www.bloombergquint.com/business/covid-19-spread-fastest-by-teens-and-tweens-korea-study-finds[/quote]
Thanks so much for this post. I feel a bit like I’m going insane at the moment, as everything out in the press etc seems to be just accepting schools are all going back.

I’m lucky that I don’t need to send mine but I can’t help thinking about all the people that do and teachers. Schools should be as safe as possible.

Even Newsround had what felt like a brain-washing feature on it. It feels like the country has accepted it as inevitable. Like we can simply stick two fingers up at the virus and carry on as normal.

I’m hoping that the government have no intention of following the current plan and that it will play out slowly in the media why it can’t happen. I noticed the headline today was about Boris not wanting another lockdown.

Maybe I’m being over optimist. But your article gives me hope that people are at least fighting to avoid another disaster.

The cynical side of me still thinks they know it can’t happen, but are hoping to pin it on a villain - be it unions, scientists, or “nervous” parents and teachers.

I get the impression the OP doesn't want normal life to resume anytime spon. What the fuck do you think will happen to kids if they are kept off school any longer?

Distance learning is not sustainable. It's not just about education. Schools provide so much more for children including socialisation and safeguarding. The risk of virus spread has to be balanced with this and so far the virus has been prioritised.

So what shall I do with my 7 year old then whilst I'm at work in September?

As much as I want my children to be safe, I would want my dc to be able to go to school. Speaking as a mother of a child who has weak immune system compared to others.
Our school held meeting with every children and family in the school, explained to us what's happening, measures they are taking.
Also there is a choice if I wanted to keep my dc at home, I can deregister him and home school.

I think we need to go into this with our eyes open - which is why this study is welcome.

I’m a teacher at a secondary.

I’ve spent the last week (in between teaching Y10 and teaching the rest online) getting the department physically ready for September. No furniture except tables and chairs. No space for books in rooms. Trollies for each teacher so they have their own stuff that they move with them if they move classes.

It’s been impossible - absolutely impossible- to make the Y10s socially distance outside class. And that’s been with only a quarter in at a time. When we have over a thousand pupils in the building there is no hope of distancing.

That, inevitably, will push infection rates up and risk staff shortages, many children being off school and potentially further closure.

We have to have a plan to manage this - a robust blended learning model “just in case”. That means government money to ensure disadvantaged children have online access - device and WiFi. It means ensuring staff have that too. It means making parents accountable for their children being “in school” remotely. It means a thousand tiny logistical and pedagogical decisions being made now “just in case”.

What this study shows Is that we can’t just go back as normal and keep our fingers crossed.

Sir Patrick Vallance is forecasting 120,000 deaths in the second wave

No he's not, that's the worst case scenario. Which is be only likely to happen if there is no Preparation done withing the NHS and social care

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/14/action-to-stop-winter-covid-19-second-wave-in-uk-must-start-now

Maybe have a read of this article and stop scare mongering

@KayEngel

I get the impression the OP doesn't want normal life to resume anytime spon. What the fuck do you think will happen to kids if they are kept off school any longer?

I long for our children to be back at school, but not at risk to their health and the health of friends and family members.

We’re dealing with a lethal virus that causes long term complications. We know it infects the brain, bone marrow and reproductive system. We have no idea what long term damage it might do.

www.sciencealert.com/covid-19-patient-autopsies-show-blood-clots-in-almost-every-organ-pathologist-says

People living with Long Covid can tell you this is not a virus any of us want to catch.

www.cnn.com/2020/07/19/health/long-covid-italy-uk-gbr-intl/index.html

It might be inconvenient for us not to be able to resume our normal lives, but that’s the reality of a pandemic. It’s painful, traumatic and inconvenient.

A number of studies have demonstrated that cross infection of Covid19 with another respiratory virus increases likelihood of hospitalisation and death. Allowing widespread transmission of Covid19 during flu season is reckless.

The virus will not adapt to how we like to live. We either accept a higher rate of ill health, death and shorter life expectancy or we must adapt to it.

Distance learning for those who can, smaller schools, more outdoor learning, smaller classes (in Denmark children are taught in groups of 6 to 8)

www.brookings.edu/blog/education-plus-development/2020/07/06/reopening-the-world-reopening-schools-insights-from-denmark-and-finland/

There are lots of things we can do to reduce risk. Swearing at strangers on Mumsnet and pretending we can carry on as normal aren’t particularly positive contributions.

I feel like im going to leave teaching if it persists to be this cruel on children. I'm not prepared to do it .... Obviously however, I won't because that's not playing my part or doing the job I love doing. But I absolutely dread September and how much the children will be losing out .