Schools Reopening?

[ClimbDad]

A major, peer reviewed study into transmission in South Korea has established that tweens and teenagers spread the SARSCOV2 virus more than any other age group.

The study involved more than 65,000 people and used South Korea’s exceptionally effective contact tracing system to look at who brought the virus into households. Tweens and teenagers were the highest index case age group. Younger children transmitted at the same rate as 20-somethings.

This is a large scale, rigorous piece of research that proves children are effective at transmitting the virus. It was conducted in a country that implements strict social distancing and mask wearing among children. The authors say the rate of transmission would have been higher if children weren’t subjected to those measures.

Plans to reopen schools more or less as normal in September will place many lives at risk, and increase the likelihood schools will have to close again. The government needs to acknowledge schools will be highly efficient vectors of viral transmission and change its reopening plans.

Published Paper:
wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/10/20-1315_article

Article on the paper:

www.bloombergquint.com/business/covid-19-spread-fastest-by-teens-and-tweens-korea-study-finds

I'm interested in what those who say schools should go back as normal want to happen if there are cases in school. I've come up with some options:

A: positive cases household isolate only - school remains open (what was happening before schools closed, led to lots of cover as staff off isolating, combining classes as not enough supply)
B: confirmed positive case isolate immediate contacts for 2 weeks, so those nearby in classrooms and friendship group. C: positive cases cause bubble closure for 2 weeks and isolation at home.
D: positive cases cause school closure
E: something else - please describe below

I think secondary school students can afford to only be in 2-3 days a week, half in at a time. I would love it if DD's school did this.

@monkeytennis97

My DH and I are secondary school teachers.. we don't want to be the 'balance of risk' thank you very much. My job is a job, I'm not giving my life up for it. I have my own children who need their mum and dad.

THIS!

Kids need to be in school and they need to be educated properly. It’s not an optional extra. It must happen. I am bemused at how little importance some people seem to attach to the importance of schooling and education.

I don't want my kids in and out of school this autumn. I want my school to have the planning and resources to make the return to school a stable solution.
The government planning was clearly focused on primary students and they just assumed that secondaries could do the same when they are a different kettle of fish and need extra consideration. The bubble system can't work for secondaries as teachers often teach every year and classrooms are often used by every year. Lack of contact tracing is a serious problem and should have been ready for September

What provision do you then think there should be made for vulnerable and shielding school staff

The same provisions that have been in place for the many, many immunocompromised children/children of family members that were having to deal with the issue of illness and vulnerability long before Covid19 was in circulation.

Reading this shit is so depressing.

Adults working with them need to be as safe as possible. So masks should be worn. I don't understand how anyone would think otherwise, given this research.

Children's education matters but the lives of those working with them matters more.

Because a mask in only effective if everyone wears one as they really only offer protection to others not the wearer so, for a teacher to be able to work safely would require all children to wear a mask also. Given that 95% of adults you see out and about wearing a facemask are incapable of NOT touching it (thereby increasing the risk by spreading around whatever virus particles are covering it) then I don't see how you can expect children to use them appropriately so as to actually be of any use, expecially primary school children. You are more likelly to pick up an illness through improper use.

As you said on the first page OP, we will have to learn the hard way. There's plenty the goverent could have done for secondaries. Part time in school and part time online to reduce the numbers, masks, social distancing. None of it is being implemented. I read the guidelines for September for my eldest and it's pretty much back as normal. Considering that his classes mean he'll be sat in an enclosed space with a different teacher for each, he'll be in with a different set of 30 other children for most too. I don't know how it won't spread. I don't know if I'll be sending mine come September.

You are more likelly to pick up an illness through improper use.

That was the government’s argument, yes. But the rest of the world disagrees, the evidence appears to show masks slow spread and the government is increasingly being forced to back down on this. First it was buses, now it’s shops.

Your line of argument is out of date.

I really don't understand why the public have not been celebrating teachers in the same way as other key workers have been. Teachers have been working throughout, schools have never closed

🙄

Schools have effectively been closed to the majority of pupils. The majority of teachers have been working from home the majority of the time with the odd day in school. Obviously that may have changed for some when they reopened to years R, 1, and 6

Are you celebrating everyone who has been working throughout? I work in public sector (but not keyworker) and have been working throughout, my DH works in construction and has been working throughout, my friend is a manager in leisure industry and has been working throughout, my BIL an electrician and has been working throughout.....the list goes on. Many people have been working throughout and haven’t been celebrated.

Get over yourself

@SmileEachDay I completely agree with you that schools should be planning for frequent closures due to staff shortages and therefore will need to be able to provide a decent blended learning offer at the drop of a hat. We are planning for this in my school- it's been a buttload of work, however we are going into the Autumn term confident that if we need to close or if whole bubbles and large numbers of staff need to isolate that we have something in place to ensure continuity of the education the students need to access.

I want schools open and everyone to attend as normal, but I accept that we can’t have this at the moment. Or at least that we wouldn’t have it for very long.

To get the most from our education system we need a more measured approach.

Gradually increasing the numbers with smaller class sizes and social distancing has to be the way to start. If we just chuck them all in we could be back to square one far faster.

A more cautious approach could lead to more teaching hours overall, maybe even consistency for the winter.

My school aged children are 18 months apart and I’m a SAHM, I can homeschool. Others would probably be happy to home school for a few more months.

We need schools open for as long as possible, as safely as reasonably possible because this is what will support the vulnerable and those parents that need support / to work.

Telling everyone it is compulsory and coming up with the concept of size 30 bubbles is not acceptable.

My kids still can’t play with their cousins because it’s not safe. How do I explain classrooms are? Classrooms where social distancing isn’t possible with large bubbles need to be actively avoided not introduced as the norm.

concept of size 30 bubbles

Oh that would be lovely. Our ‘bubbles’ are over 200.

I really don't understand why the public have not been celebrating teachers in the same way as other key workers have been.

Not everyone has school aged kids where as healthcare workers are relied on by everyone. I think that there's a lot of forgotten key workers like cleaners, care workers and prison staff (no ppe!)

@SmileEachDay

But too many people are viewing schools and education as an optional extra

Who?

The government I feel....

@noblegiraffe

concept of size 30 bubbles

Oh that would be lovely. Our ‘bubbles’ are over 200.

I know. I think 30 is ridiculous and 200 just been there to make 30 seem ok. 30 is ridiculous. 200 just can’t happen. Although schools are obviously having to plan for it.

I’m so sorry teachers and secondary school parents have bubbles of 200 to worry about.

That was the government’s argument, yes. But the rest of the world disagrees, the evidence appears to show masks slow spread and the government is increasingly being forced to back down on this. First it was buses, now it’s shops.*

Your line of argument is out of date.

Or is it more a case of that really, there just aren't the hundreds upon thousands of asymptomatic people wandering around the place as we are being led to believe and the people with the actual symptoms are isolating thereby not passing the virus on as undiscriminately as they once were. WHO are now on the fence about how prevelant asymptomatic transmission within the population actually is and require further studies to make a definitive assessment.

@noblegiraffe

concept of size 30 bubbles

Oh that would be lovely. Our ‘bubbles’ are over 200.

Our bubbles are 300+ and staff move between them. I have no idea what happens if a member of staff tests positive, I guess as we are all staying 2m from the students no one else will count as a close contact even though we face them and talk to them in a loud voice during lessons. Loads of the kids get the same buses anyway or have siblings in other years so not really sure you could describe them as bubbles...

@noblegiraffe our bubbles are 300. Each. Think they might pop quite easily. I will be moving between 3-5 bubbles every day. I am really not sure why anyone thinks this might be an issue 🤣😂. Oh that's right, Covid doesn't come into schools. Teachers behaviour management is so amazing we have scared it out of the classroom.

Secondary school kids are not really in bubbles as staff teach all years and all years use the classrooms. Some schools share buses so secondary school bubbles are really in the 1000s

@Flagsfiend with you all the way. Bubbles broken as soon as kids get on buses (that go in different directions) or go home with siblings.
And people are whining about having to go back to the office.

@netflixismysidehustle Yup. Our school is really a bubble of 1800. Which doesn't include families of everyone. All a bit of a farce.

This is a very interesting discussion and I don’t have any answers. There are some great ideas above as to how to manage risks.
I haven’t seen in any of the suggestions though, if we go for a part time or full time distance learning model, who will care for/home school the young children in working single parent families or families where both parents work full time. Significant government funding would be needed here too, taking into account the vast increase in benefit claims that will arise from it.

We have teachers who teach at different schools within the MAT, and sixth formers who have lessons at different schools.

The word bubble is literally meaningless.

@Drivingdownthe101

This is a very interesting discussion and I don’t have any answers. There are some great ideas above as to how to manage risks. I haven’t seen in any of the suggestions though, if we go for a part time or full time distance learning model, who will care for/home school the young children in working single parent families or families where both parents work full time. Significant government funding would be needed here too, taking into account the vast increase in benefit claims that will arise from it.

Primary is logistically easier, they tend to be smaller, can realistically have 1 teacher most of the time, students usually stay in the same classroom, more students live within walking distance. I don't understand why there isn't different guidance for primary and secondary.