Schools Reopening?

[ClimbDad]

A major, peer reviewed study into transmission in South Korea has established that tweens and teenagers spread the SARSCOV2 virus more than any other age group.

The study involved more than 65,000 people and used South Korea’s exceptionally effective contact tracing system to look at who brought the virus into households. Tweens and teenagers were the highest index case age group. Younger children transmitted at the same rate as 20-somethings.

This is a large scale, rigorous piece of research that proves children are effective at transmitting the virus. It was conducted in a country that implements strict social distancing and mask wearing among children. The authors say the rate of transmission would have been higher if children weren’t subjected to those measures.

Plans to reopen schools more or less as normal in September will place many lives at risk, and increase the likelihood schools will have to close again. The government needs to acknowledge schools will be highly efficient vectors of viral transmission and change its reopening plans.

Published Paper:
wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/10/20-1315_article

Article on the paper:

www.bloombergquint.com/business/covid-19-spread-fastest-by-teens-and-tweens-korea-study-finds

I find it very interesting reading all the posts where people are completely unprepared to return back to their busy offices on a packed train, due to the risks of Covid, but want their children and our teachers to do just that.

Hehe...

Children need to go back if they are not shielding.

ALL children are going back, as shielding is being paused on the 1st August.

@opheliascrayon as a teacher who is also shielding, I completely disagree with you. You do not speak for all teachers.

Sadly, there will always be martyrs in teaching who make life even harder for the rest of us!

Interesting that posters are choosing to ignore the point about potential effect on male fertility. I read of this months ago, but have chosen not to use it on any of the "big fuss about nothing; get the kids back in school NOW" threads.
Because numbers appear, in the main, to be reducing at the moment, does NOT mean this bastard virus has gone away. It's a bit like saying you didn't get wet in yesterday's rain, when in fact, the reason for that was that you stayed indoors. It's still raining today, maybe not too heavily, but that doesn't mean a downpour isn't coming later. And you're going to need to stock up with umbrellas and waterproofs.

@Llamazoom

I agree that provisions need to be made for remote learning, none of us know what the winter will bring even the experts can only make predictions.

If Covid sweeps through schools there may not be enough teachers to keep the school open.

Also not ALL children need to be back in school, shielding children’s parents should have the right to decide what is best for their child.

Mine will be going back in September but won’t be seeing their grandparents at all. Deputy head expects closures by October half term anyway.

Likewise. Exponential transmission means schools are likely to have to close mid to late October. We should be planning for this.

Every week, Public Health England publishes a surveillance report showing the source of outbreaks. For the past five weeks, an average of ten schools PER DAY have been at the heart of COVID-19 outbreaks. This has been at a time when attendance is low and schools have been implementing social distancing.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-covid-19-surveillance-reports

@CallmeAngelina

Interesting that posters are choosing to ignore the point about potential effect on male fertility. I read of this months ago, but have chosen not to use it on any of the "big fuss about nothing; get the kids back in school NOW" threads. Because numbers appear, in the main, to be reducing at the moment, does NOT mean this bastard virus has gone away. It's a bit like saying you didn't get wet in yesterday's rain, when in fact, the reason for that was that you stayed indoors. It's still raining today, maybe not too heavily, but that doesn't mean a downpour isn't coming later. And you're going to need to stock up with umbrellas and waterproofs.

Great analogy.

Pebble21uk, I get it, but this can't go on forever, and you have to make a choice at certain point. For me, it's either send my ds to school or deregister. For you, it's either go back to work or resign.
The important things to think now is how we can make it safer for everyone. And it really is up to you and your school, either you are teacher or children.

Friends in other countries are looking at the UK’s plans to reopen schools more or less as normal and wonder whether our government has lost its mind. No responsible country that has measurable infections is even considering opening schools as normal.

California:
www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-07-17/california-imposes-statewide-coronavirus-standard-for-reopening-schools

Denmark and Finland:

www.brookings.edu/blog/education-plus-development/2020/07/06/reopening-the-world-reopening-schools-insights-from-denmark-and-finland/

A survey of other countries:

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/coronavirus-lockdown-school-uk-germany-france-china-south-korea-children-a9560436.html

A common theme seems to be a significant reduction in class sizes and teaching groups, plus masks and social distancing - none of which is being proposed by the UK government.

@CallmeAngelina

Interesting that posters are choosing to ignore the point about potential effect on male fertility. I read of this months ago, but have chosen not to use it on any of the "big fuss about nothing; get the kids back in school NOW" threads. Because numbers appear, in the main, to be reducing at the moment, does NOT mean this bastard virus has gone away. It's a bit like saying you didn't get wet in yesterday's rain, when in fact, the reason for that was that you stayed indoors. It's still raining today, maybe not too heavily, but that doesn't mean a downpour isn't coming later. And you're going to need to stock up with umbrellas and waterproofs.

Great analogy. It isn’t just the risk of infertility. There’s decades of research suggesting human coronaviruses play a role in Parkinson’s and MS. We do not know what the long term implications of Covid19 are - I’d like more understanding before being so cavalier with children’s health.

A review of how human coronaviruses attack the central nervous system.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31861926/

[quote Pebble21uk]**@opheliascrayon as a teacher who is also shielding, I completely disagree with you. You do not speak for all teachers.

Sadly, there will always be martyrs in teaching who make life even harder for the rest of us![/quote]
At no point have I said I speak for all teachers. Of course I don't

I'm very worried about sending my three DC's back to school. I have a disability and 5yo DD picked up so many bugs in reception at one point the hospital suspected leukaemia. We've been so cautious that the idea of sending my 12yo DD on a packed 45 minute school bus in a face mask come September 7th just feels unthinkable. I'm terrified.
However, I have no idea what the alternative is? I cannot meet the educational or social needs of my children alone and my DH will eventually need to go back to work. I'm already seeing behavioural issues in my 5yo who hasn't played with another child her age since March.

I wonder if maybe there needs to be a different approach for secondary given the studies shown.

I would prefer my two secondary DC to be in part time and part time at home but to know it would continue to place, than to be in full time for a couple of months only for the school to close again.

Ours is planning for online in case of that happening anyway. They have started doing online lessons and done thousands of classes online (state school) Part time would be easier for parents of secondary, than primary also in terms of work / childcare, although obviously not ideal.

Our school made provision for the ones not engaging too, but having them in full time during this time so there is a set up to support those pupils as well.

xolotltezcatlopoca I agree with you - and that is the choice I am facing. It is also the choice my partner is facing as a teacher in the very vulvenrable catagory - so we really are facing the prospect of zero income, all because our government refuse to put the time and effort into making schools safe and like @opheliascrayon just think we should all go back and get on with it whatever the consequences .

I have many many ideas as to how to make schools safer environments - I have laid them out on other threads. Unfortunately the government don't want to listen and I am not a decision maker within my school.

Personally I would:

Make face masks madatory for all secondary pupils (if they can't wear a mask for whatever reason then they wear a face shield. If they can't wear a face shield they are supported in their learning online from home)

By that token - make online learning a part of solution - for shielding children and shielding teaching staff - allowing both to access teaching and work.

Have a staggered school day / part time schooling mixed with online learning - difficult to implement but not impossible - allowing for social distancing in schools.

Give extra money for cleaning and sanitising within schools.

All primary children to wear face shields (again if possible and if not then revert to online learning)

Take children's temperature every morning on arrival at school. Zero tolerance on any suspected illness within schools.

These are a few things I feel could be implemented. I know there will be many who won't agree with them... but they are a starting point, a discussion rather than a pretending it doesn't exist.

We are all going to have to make compromises!

Also the guidelines for school state that online/remote learning should be in place in all schools alongside face to face learning...as there will be children who cannot attend school due to self isolation via track and trace, bubbles closing, local lockdowns etc.

Where a pupil is unable to attend school because they are complying with clinical and/or public health advice, we expect schools to be able to immediately offer them access to remote education. Schools should monitor engagement with this activity (as set out in the section below).

This is all getting beyond a joke. Kids don’t get it, oh no wait they do, they don’t spread it, oh hang on they do.

Schools closing was meant to be a temporary measure to break chains of transmission when the epidemic was growing. That’s over so time to stop all the hand wringing and get them back to school normally ASAP. This has gone on long enough.

Pebble21uk, thank you.You sound like a very good teacher with positive influence to the school and children.

I believe that in France, children were being automatically sent home if they turned up without a mask.

That’s over so time to stop all the hand wringing and get them back to school normally ASAP. This has gone on long enough

Hand wringing? What do you mean?

@Pebble21uk

xolotltezcatlopoca I agree with you - and that is the choice I am facing. It is also the choice my partner is facing as a teacher in the very vulvenrable catagory - so we really are facing the prospect of zero income, all because our government refuse to put the time and effort into making schools safe and like *@opheliascrayon* just think we should all go back and get on with it whatever the consequences .

I have many many ideas as to how to make schools safer environments - I have laid them out on other threads. Unfortunately the government don't want to listen and I am not a decision maker within my school.

Personally I would:

Make face masks madatory for all secondary pupils (if they can't wear a mask for whatever reason then they wear a face shield. If they can't wear a face shield they are supported in their learning online from home)

By that token - make online learning a part of solution - for shielding children and shielding teaching staff - allowing both to access teaching and work.

Have a staggered school day / part time schooling mixed with online learning - difficult to implement but not impossible - allowing for social distancing in schools.

Give extra money for cleaning and sanitising within schools.

All primary children to wear face shields (again if possible and if not then revert to online learning)

Take children's temperature every morning on arrival at school. Zero tolerance on any suspected illness within schools.

These are a few things I feel could be implemented. I know there will be many who won't agree with them... but they are a starting point, a discussion rather than a pretending it doesn't exist.

We are all going to have to make compromises!

I agree.

I also want to see evidence of a negative test before children return to school, not just the parent say so that it was negative. They might not even have bothered to have it done at all!

Or what’s your answer OP? Keep schools closed forever and keep denying children their fundamental human right to an education?

Even if cases rise, they still need to go back to school. Nothing is ever going to be risk free. Having an uneducated population and a completely screwed economy is worse than COVID. We all live with the risk of illnesses every day that can have lifelong effects. We can’t shut down society to prevent getting them.

@Pebble21uk

xolotltezcatlopoca I agree with you - and that is the choice I am facing. It is also the choice my partner is facing as a teacher in the very vulvenrable catagory - so we really are facing the prospect of zero income, all because our government refuse to put the time and effort into making schools safe and like *@opheliascrayon* just think we should all go back and get on with it whatever the consequences .

I have many many ideas as to how to make schools safer environments - I have laid them out on other threads. Unfortunately the government don't want to listen and I am not a decision maker within my school.

Personally I would:

Make face masks madatory for all secondary pupils (if they can't wear a mask for whatever reason then they wear a face shield. If they can't wear a face shield they are supported in their learning online from home)

By that token - make online learning a part of solution - for shielding children and shielding teaching staff - allowing both to access teaching and work.

Have a staggered school day / part time schooling mixed with online learning - difficult to implement but not impossible - allowing for social distancing in schools.

Give extra money for cleaning and sanitising within schools.

All primary children to wear face shields (again if possible and if not then revert to online learning)

Take children's temperature every morning on arrival at school. Zero tolerance on any suspected illness within schools.

These are a few things I feel could be implemented. I know there will be many who won't agree with them... but they are a starting point, a discussion rather than a pretending it doesn't exist.

We are all going to have to make compromises!

Great ideas. Hard work and creativity are essential if we’re to navigate this pandemic safely. Saying, “Oh just get on with it,” or hoping for the best simply isn’t good enough.

SARSCOV2 infection causes functional depletion and exhaustion of T-cells. Anyone with knowledge of the adaptive immune system will understand what that’s going to mean for people long-term. I’m not going to go into details on this thread because a certain contingent will accuse me of scaremongering.

Shielding being paused on the 1st of August is beyond ridiculous, those who are extremely vulnerable should be given the choice whether they want to get back out there or not. They do not stop being vulnerable as soon as the clock strikes midnight on the 1st.

These adults/children are clearly seen as expendable which is beyond belief to me. I speak as someone who is healthy and who has healthy children. If one of my children were vulnerable hell would freeze over before I exposed them to risk. Nobody should decide what is best for these children apart from their parents.

What the alternative though? People need to work. The country is financially screwed already. Kids need social interaction and proper learning. Sucide rates have doubled. Cancers aren’t being detected in time. Poverty will increase which leads to more death and poor outcomes and health.
At what point do we say that the lives adversely affected by lockdown are greater than the lives adversely affected by covid? Which lives do we pick as more important? Lives are going to be lost no matter which option we decide to continue with.

@Orangeblossom78

Please can you copy and paste this article.

I have seen this, too which is about schools in Israel.

www.ft.com/content/224fa625-657c-4ffb-a6a0-a40e04d685b9

My question is - school bubbles will only close if there are 2 or more confirmed cases. And even then, only in agreement with PHE. If you hear on the grapevine (WhatsApp or FB), that there is one confirmed case in your child's bubble, will you keep your child off school?