Are Jewish people BAME?

[novacaneforthepain]

I have looked this up and find so many different answers. Does anyone know for a fact?

That’s a really interesting question. The proportion of Jews who have died during the pandemic is significantly higher than in the general population. Whether this is due to genetic factors or lifestyle factors is still to be determined. Certainly within the ultra orthodox community there have been many deaths. They’re a community who are often economically deprived, living in crowded conditions and due to the need for communal prayer took a long time to accept social distancing so I expect this has played a big part. They are also less likely to access external services, can be hard to reach and often don’t read about the news so may not be well informed about the disease.

Whether there is a genetic link to make Jewish people more vulnerable I don’t know.

As for the question as to whether Jews are BAME that’s a good one. I’m Eastern European heritage and look white British but culturally I’m not and I’ll never be English English and feel different but I pass so have the advantage of being able to share my background as and when I wish to. My husbands family come from an Arab country and are extremely dark. They can’t pass as white and therefore they’re obviously not white and therefore BAME but I’m not sure they would consider themselves to be. Certainly the Sephardi Jewish community in England are darker with many looking Indian or certainly very Arabic and I would certainly class them as BAME but not would consider their Jewishness as their identity before their skin colour

What’s Cronyn got to do with this? He’s not running the country or dealing with Covid death statistics and reporting

@Floatyboat good socio economic outcomes does not mean that systemic racism has gone away.

@AntiHop

I'm aware of that. My point was the left cites socio economic disadvantage as evidence of systemic racism. Which in my view leads to them tying themselves in his knots and perverse discrimination, again see corbyn's blind spot for anti semetism.

I would love to see you evidence on the socio economic outcomes @Floatyboat I did think it was an odd thing to say

Jewish heritage here, pass as white. Have in my life heard lots of racist anti Semitic comments which have saddened but not surprised me.

I do feel I have a different ethnicity but worry that if I claimed that publicly I might be seen as a privileged person belittling the struggles which are genuinely faced by BAME people

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.jpr.org.uk/documents/Jews%2520in%2520Britain:%2520A%2520snapshot%2520from%2520the%25202001%2520Census.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiv-frZ_Y_qAhUTURUIHfgODUsQFjACegQIBhAC&usg=AOvVaw1A55U3LaOOn6dFIg3YDBl0" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.jpr.org.uk/documents/Jews%2520in%2520Britain:%2520A%2520snapshot%2520from%2520the%25202001%2520Census.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiv-frZ_Y_qAhUTURUIHfgODUsQFjACegQIBhAC&usg=AOvVaw1A55U3LaOOn6dFIg3YDBl0

Summary of census findings

I suppose maybe yes, maybe no? What matters is how Jewish people see it really. Are there strict definitions generally agreed upon as to what makes a group a "minority ethnic" group? And does a group have to meet them for others to recognise that the group faces prejudice and discrimination?

Your doc shows quite a nuanced picture, doesn’t it @Floatyboat?

“ Overall the Jewish population experienced high living standards. However, this was not the picture across the board and the Census highlighted social inequality within the group.”

So not really as simple as Jewish population doing amazing!

@Onceuponatimethen

I never said they were doing amazing. I was making the point about the group as a whole, which is born out by the data as far as I can tell. A similar point could also be argued about british Indians.

Personally, I think this should not have any relevance and the bame group is too heterogenous and reductionist to be useful much of the time anyway. My point was about how the left views it. I'm honestly not sure why people have leapt on my comments.

Just because some BAME people are well-off doesn’t mean systemic racism and oppression doesn’t exist. That is so short-sighted.

Because @Floatyboat there is an enormous amount of historic sensitivity about Jewish people and their alleged (excessive to racists) wealth

How interesting that you picked that JPR report and not more recent ones with more detailed stats on poverty.

@Onceuponatimethen this is how I feel too:

“I do feel I have a different ethnicity but worry that if I claimed that publicly I might be seen as a privileged person belittling the struggles which are genuinely faced by BAME people”

But then I come back to the far right test and the

fact members of my family have been attacked.

Just because some BAME people are well-off doesn’t mean systemic racism and oppression doesn’t exist. That is so short-sighted.

I know! My point was about how the left views it.

@lankylemon

That was just what came up on Google to be honest. But seems a pretty comprehensive account of fairly reliable data. Obviously it doesn't capture the full story.

I can’t believe “but Jewish people are rich!!” has been used to suggest BAME people aren’t systemically oppressed. Like “the Left” are trying to say everyone from a BAME background is living in poverty. Systemic racism affects so much more - it’s in how people are perceived and treated in the workplace (including highly paid jobs), as well as their treatment by police, health officials, school staff, etc.
It’s like saying “white privilege doesn’t exist because I’m poor and that Indian person is rich”.

Do people think the left has a problem with or blind spot for antisemetism and what do you think the reason for that is?

I often think that anti-semitism is a ‘respectable’ form of racism. Of course, other than morons, few are outright anti semites, they claim they are not anti-Semitic at all, just anti Zionist or anti Israel, because of the Palestinian question.

Of course, when you ask them what responsibility they believe Jordan has for Palestinians or when they last campaigned for a Palestinian state in Jordan, they go very quiet.

I don’t care about labels, though.

It’s just racism @Floatyboat whichever part of the political spectrum it comes from.

I do feel I have a different ethnicity but worry that if I claimed that publicly I might be seen as a privileged person belittling the struggles which are genuinely faced by BAME people

This for me too. And I’m a first generation immigrant into the bargain. And relatively wealthy. Which means that I often identify as white for an easier life - but it sits uneasily.

The essay “How did Jews become white folk?” pretty much sums it up for me. Would love to know if there was academic research on the same in the UK or Europe.

Interestingly, there was a study carried out not so long ago that asked the opinions of people of people from various ethnicities how they wanted to be described on official forms. Overwhelmingly, the Jewish respondents did not want to be separately categorised officially, for fairly obvious reasons. As far as I can recall, the only group that really wanted a separate category was Somalians.
I came across the study whilst checking out who was encompassed within BAME for curriculum purposes.
I couldn't find that there was full consensus on who was within that definition.
I'll try to find a link.