Outdoors-only pubs and restaurants to reopen on June 22nd

[Redolent]

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/72edead1-80ee-4787-8818-aacfd84ed638

I guess the science has officially left the building. The threat of 3.5 million job losses in the hospitality sector had swung it.

22 June is too early because it's only two weeks away. And pubs (even outdoors) are one of the best ways of spreading a virus of any kind. People start off sensible, banging elbows and the like, and then they get pissed and start hugging and slobbering over each other.

And aren't we supposed to be protecting the NHS? So we are going to restart Friday/Saturday night drunken accidents/assaults? I bet NHS staff who work in A&E are really looking forward to that after weeks of having to deal with covid stress.

All these talking about schools, it is two completely separate issues looked at separately.

3.5 million job losses will kill more than Corona will in this country.

Some people who are alone need the social aspect of it don't forget.

If opening pubs, restaurants, airports causes R0 to rise, local councils and teachers will oppose reopening schools far more vigorously, especially ft schooling

All those people who were saying we should start to end lockdown for the children ... I kept agreeing to that,
but now it seems for some that education was just a useful emotional argument, to be dumped when no longer needed

imo, we should focus 100% on getting ft schools back in September
Children have sacrificed enough for adults
Sacrificing some weeks of education for lives was necessary, but not for pubs & restaurants

All these talking about schools, it is two completely separate issues looked at separately

Yes.

Also, has there been any confirmation of this June opening date? Or is it just 'sources say'?

@thetoddleratemyhomework

Schools should be back properly full time in September. The government obviously wants them back before but the unions don't agree. France are ahead of us by no more than a month and have opened all outdoor establishments already. Their science minister has also said it was a mistake to close schools and all childcare settings should be open. If the teaching unions were a bit more pragmatic about either distance learning or opening schools now then to be honest kids would be getting a better education

Having read many of the education threads, I totally disagree with your last sentence. One poster said her school planned to take yr10s for 4 days out of 5 and asked if they could start early as all plans were in place. The government put a kibosh to this by dictating only 1/4 of the school yr10 cohort could be in school at any onetime.

Anyway, back to the op, I agree if anyone has covid, it will spread fast in these types of settings due to the behaviour of people once sloshed. However, I think there is very little cv in the community now and hopefully within a couple of weeks, the chances of spread will be far lower.

@florriepeck

Be fine as long as the weather is good and you don't want to go to the toilet.

One beer only then

@BigChocFrenzy

If opening pubs, restaurants, airports causes R0 to rise, local councils and teachers will oppose reopening schools far more vigorously, especially ft schooling

All those people who were saying we should start to end lockdown for the children ... I kept agreeing to that,
but now it seems for some that education was just a useful emotional argument, to be dumped when no longer needed

imo, we should focus 100% on getting ft schools back in September
Children have sacrificed enough for adults
Sacrificing some weeks of education for lives was necessary, but not for pubs & restaurants

Agreed and I see the government has plainly told us their priority, which clearly isn’t children.

The issues are not separate
We likely have very limited wiggle room in R0 and we don't know how much each relaxation will affect the spread of cases

We should use the wiggle room for education of children first,
then wait a few weeks to see what wiggle room is left for adults

Also, ft schools will free up parents in all sectors, not just hospitality, to save their jobs and their firms,
maybe their sanity too.

Children have sacrificed enough for adults
Sacrificing some weeks of education for lives was necessary, but not for pubs & restaurants

You do realise that a lot of the 3.5 millions of people who work in pubs restaurants have children and if they have no money coming in their child will suffer more than a few months of no education

What about all the parents in other sectors who will have no jobs if ft schoolig doesn't resume soon

Why prioritise just one sector over the rest of the economy - and over education of all children

We should use the wiggle room for education of children first,
then wait a few weeks to see what wiggle room is left for adults

I do agree with you but the government tried to be fair to open them in what was clearly going to be a staggered approached and many unions, teachers, parents and schools kicked off. As in proper kicked off. Shouting about how we were sacrificing kids and teachers, how it wasn’t safe, and some fairly unpleasant stuff.

As said, I think thr government caved on their plan. So open the pubs instead,,

I agree with pp that the issue with pubs is not just that of people sat eating. It's the alcohol. This will fill up a&e again and those people will come out with CV.
But i think it's likely better to start off in the summer here as it is so short. At least the pubs can open for a month or two outside.
With people wfh pubs could be busier midweek at lunchtimes even if missing the 70+.

I agree with bigchoc entirely here. I get your point bluntless that the political storm kicked up about schools may make it difficult for the government to open schools more widely. Ideally the Government would seek to reassure and have the courage in it's convictions to continue with opening to more students in the face of this backlash (as a priority to opening other things). However I fear this government will take the path of least resistance.

I think if everything else opens up and the death rate keeps falling then their argument will just run out of steam.

If everything else opens up and the death rate keeps falling, why would we be arguing?

If the teaching unions were a bit more pragmatic about either distance learning or opening schools now then to be honest kids would be getting a better education

Well they're basically saying DO NOTHING to teachers. It's bad to teach online. It's bad to open schools. It's even bad to mark work. What do they actually think their highly trained, professional members are meant to do, given they are receiving a full salary?

many unions, teachers, parents and schools kicked off. As in proper kicked off. Shouting about how we were sacrificing kids and teachers, how it wasn’t safe, and some fairly unpleasant stuff

I find it pretty difficult to believe that this government would cave into a few teaching unions. The councils have, to be sure, but not the government Come on, this is (largely) the government which prorogued parliament to try to avoid it stopping a no deal Brexit and is hell bent on leaving the EU transition period without a deal despite covid. They're quite happy to damage the UK economy to an incredibly damaging degree - if they wanted schools back, they would be back.

I have grown to think they are entirely happy for youngsters to miss out on education.

Well they're basically saying DO NOTHING to teachers. It's bad to teach online. It's bad to open schools. It's even bad to mark work. What do they actually think their highly trained, professional members are meant to do, given they are receiving a full salary?

Interesting. Why do they think it is bad to mark work?

@puffinkoala

But it is the unions and the whole profession - look at mumsnet just a couple of weeks ago. Literally all school threads ended in teachers saying "so we are the only profession not getting PPE and kids won't socially distance SO TEACHERS ARE GOING TO DIE!!!!!!". And even before they shut schools parents were pulling kids out in panic. The government gets no points in playing hardball to give kids an education until enough parents say bloody hell please educate our kids THIS IS WHAT WE WANT. Mary Bousted today said basically no school in September from the unions' perspective - they are totally mad. And arguing with someone who says "what I want is a cast iron pledge that no teacher can get infected with Covid at school" is impossible!

but the government tried to be fair to open them in what was clearly going to be a staggered approached and many unions, teachers, parents and schools kicked off.

What planet are you from? I literally have met no one yet who can describe the way Boris announced the opening of schools as a fair approach. No one yet knows why he chose the year groups he did. No one yet knows why schools were instructed to prioritise these year groups in a way which would make it really difficult to then admit other children. The blame for no more year groups in to date lies squarely at number 10.

I don't personally agree with the NEUs stance on September opening, but one question I thought was a really good ask of theirs early on was, what modelling have the government done on the potential rise in R through the opening of schools?

The govt's belated response to that showed us all exactly how little attention the government were paying to the scientific advice - and since then more and more has come out about this, as the OP points out! Across all areas of life, policy and populism has won over science, and it's nowhere more visible than when the public start sniffing around now that they've had enough and can't put two and two together about who's to blame and who they should be shouting at.

So Tim Martin wants Pubs open and the Government agrees, meanwhile the whole of the travel industry wants the quarantine stopped and its a big NO!
An industry far far more important to the UK economy than the pub trade (23billion vs 257 billion)

As for schools, since when has a Tory administration been interested in state schools? they don't use them and a thick electorate is great for them.

hopefully once people start going to restaurants and pubs and without pushing up the infection rate then some of the more hysterical parents/teachers/schools/unions will chill out a bit and get the kids back to school pronto

@Bluntness100

*We should use the wiggle room for education of children first, then wait a few weeks to see what wiggle room is left for adults*

I do agree with you but the government tried to be fair to open them in what was clearly going to be a staggered approached and many unions, teachers, parents and schools kicked off. As in proper kicked off. Shouting about how we were sacrificing kids and teachers, how it wasn’t safe, and some fairly unpleasant stuff.

As said, I think thr government caved on their plan. So open the pubs instead,,

Did they bollocks kick off. Where are you getting this tripe from? The teaching unions have been focused on making sure that the reopening of schools is done with proper regard for the safety of children, their families and the adluts that work in schools. They have been largely ignored by government (as usual). Who has been shouting? 'Some fairly unpleasant stuff' ... you should try being on MN as a teacher.

we went into lockdown too late so there is now little choice over restarting the economy if we want to be able to afford to educate children without introducing fees. That means we will also be living with the virus when other countries have eliminated it. So there will be a continuing level of infection and death.

Those most at risk will need to stay home until enough drunks have been infected to reduce the risk of catching it or there is a vaccine. Unfortunately there are not enough food deliveries available for those with an intermediate risk level to avoid infection risks.

I don’t care about the pubs. I haven’t been to a pub for a long time.
But I do care about people’s livelihoods. Time to end lockdown!!