Outdoors-only pubs and restaurants to reopen on June 22nd

[Redolent]

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/72edead1-80ee-4787-8818-aacfd84ed638

I guess the science has officially left the building. The threat of 3.5 million job losses in the hospitality sector had swung it.

is that it’s disgraceful that the government is prioritising adult leisure

You’ve missed the point op. They are not prioritising leisure, they aren’t doing this because folks fancy a pint, they are doing it to save jobs and businesses, from breweries, their outlying suppliers, to the pubs, to the staff and even to the landlords who own the buildings they rent.

That’s what they are prioritising. Because of rhe untold hardship people would face otherwise.

Brilliant news.

@IcedPurple

It’s also relevant to say that we have and will continue to see a significant chasm open up between the government and SAGE. That’s an objective statement

Where have SAGE - as a group not as individual members - gone on record as saying outdoor restaurants should not open in 2 weeks time? Restaurants, including indoor seating in many cases, have been open for a few weeks in many European countries, so why is Britain so different?

Where have they gone on record as saying that they should reopen? As far as I’m aware, they approved of the plan to reopen in July. The article makes it clear that the government bought that date forward due to economic rather than public health considerations. Whether that’s the right decision or not isn’t the point I was making.

There has also been a clear tension between the government and it’s scientific advisors over the last couple of weeks, a change from ‘we’re following the science’ to ‘we’re taking the science into account’.

a change from ‘we’re following the science’ to ‘we’re taking the science into account’.

It would be utterly irresponsible of them not to do this. It’s been three months, economic hardship also leads to death and destruction.

Op. You do understand you personally can’t continue to lock down right?

What about schools ?
I read kids' education may continue to be fucked for 2021 as well

The govt should prioritise getting that sorted for September,
which would help the economy too.

A child's right to education is vastly more important than the right to have a pint or glass at a pub instead of at home

... but I suppose kids don't have the well-funded lobby groups and political donations to make their voices as loud.

I'm so sick of people thinking it's somehow ok if older people die. It really isn't. Only a very sick person would think that way.

@Bluntness100

is that it’s disgraceful that the government is prioritising adult leisure

You’ve missed the point op. They are not prioritising leisure, they aren’t doing this because folks fancy a pint, they are doing it to save jobs and businesses, from breweries, their outlying suppliers, to the pubs, to the staff and even to the landlords who own the buildings they rent.

That’s what they are prioritising. Because of rhe untold hardship people would face otherwise.

I understand all that. Mass unemployment would be disastrous in so many ways. But it’s also easier to measure and quantify than all the physical/mental/emotional deficiencies caused by the lockdown, that younger generations are being told to put up with for the sake of public health. I wish they’d be frank at least and do with the ‘science’ mantra altogether.

But economic considerations ARE public health considerations. People will get sick and die if they live in poverty. That’s a well established fact.

I don’t want too piss on anyone’s chips but there’s not been a lot of brewing going on for the past few months so we might need to stick to wine and spirits!

Watch this spell of warm, dry weather come to an end too!

A child's right to education is vastly more important than the right to have a pint or glass at a pub instead of at home

I totally agree that a child’s right to an education is critical and this needs sorted immediately

But the opening of pubs and restaurants is not about folks fancying a pint. It’s about the companies and staff who work in those industries and the financial hardship that would be faced if they remain closed.

From the breweries, rhe soft drink suppliers, the food suppliers, all their staff, even the people who own the properties, it’s massive. These people need to be able to get back whilst they still have jobs to go back to.

However I also agree education is critical. But opening pubs and restaurants is not about folks having a pint, it’s about the millions of folks who would lose their jobs, the knock on effect in other industries, and the financial devastation that would be caused.

Yes I wish we’d be more like Germany in many ways.

Your schools have now been open for a month! Correct to prioritise education and work out how to can get kids back to school even if it is part time. Why don’t we ever learn from other countries.

I wish they’d be frank at least and do with the ‘science’ mantra altogether

But op, they never said “we will ONLY” follow the science and don’t give a fuck about anything else. Following the science doesn’t mean it is followed at the exclusion to everything else. That much has been clear from the start.

@Bluntness100

a change from ‘we’re following the science’ to ‘we’re taking the science into account’.

It would be utterly irresponsible of them not to do this. It’s been three months, economic hardship also leads to death and destruction.

Op. You do understand you personally can’t continue to lock down right?

Yes I’m personally lucky enough to be able to lockdown, although with a toddler, I will soon need to contravene government rules in order to further her social development.

But no, not everyone can continue to lockdown. Society is interconnected and it’s only an individual decision for the privileged few.

@Bluntness100

I wish they’d be frank at least and do with the ‘science’ mantra altogether

But op, they never said “we will ONLY” follow the science and don’t give a fuck about anything else. Following the science doesn’t mean it is followed at the exclusion to everything else. That much has been clear from the start.

Didn’t you watch the briefings when BoJo was in hospital? They kept repeating ‘we will ONLY reopen - and in fact, start to think about reopening - when THE SCIENCE says it is safe’. They’ve parroted that line for months now.

Opening up restaurants and pubs before schools have been established pt for 2-3 weeks
If R0 is to be raised, the risk is worth it for schools above all else

The issue of schools reopening is separate to the issue of pubs and restaurants reopening. Also, schools in Spain and Italy have not reopened, but restaurants and bars have.

@Bluntness - couldn't agree with you more.

Schools in Spain and Italy haven’t reopened because they break up in June anyway.

Where have they gone on record as saying that they should reopen? As far as I’m aware, they approved of the plan to reopen in July

So actually, you haven't got a clue as to whether SAGE advised on reopening restaurants in June or not. And roadmaps like this are never set in stone. Ireland has sped up its roadmap in the last few days, for example. These things are - and should be - constantly under review.

The article makes it clear that the government bought that date forward due to economic rather than public health considerations. Whether that’s the right decision or not isn’t the point I was making

Really? Because you sounded quite cross about it.

There has also been a clear tension between the government and it’s scientific advisors over the last couple of weeks, a change from ‘we’re following the science’ to ‘we’re taking the science into account’

Which is fair enough. "The science" is only one factor that needs to be taken into account by the government. SAGE's remit is pretty narrow - to give advice from a scientific perspective. However, the govt has to take other things - such as people's livliehoods - into account. "The science" is an important factor, but so is the economy and so is mental health. If we went purely by 'the science' we'd all lock ourselves up for the next year. And probably some on MN would be delighted if we did.

They kept repeating ‘we will ONLY reopen - and in fact, start to think about reopening - when THE SCIENCE says it is safe’. They’ve parroted that line for months now.

But the science is not saying it’s unsafe. Hancock is on right now and is saying it’s below one in every region. And sage are also saying community spread is very low, it’s hospitals and care homes which is taking it up to closer to one.

You need to look at what sage actually says, and not some crap media article speculating.

"The issue of schools reopening is separate to the issue of pubs and restaurants reopening. "

No it isn't, if every relaxation measure increases R0 to some extent, then let's prioritise schools first,
then see after a couple of weeks if the hospitality sector can be reopened

Also, children spread the virus far less than adults

"It’s about the companies and staff who work in those industries and the financial hardship that would be faced if they remain closed."

The right of children to go to school was stopped because it was more important to save lives of the elderly and those with health conditions.
OK, most countries made that decision

but imo education of 15 million students should come before hospitality sector jobs.

The UK is continually putting children at the bottom of the priority list.

Because you sounded quite cross about it

This. You do.

Completely agree @BigChocFrenzy
There isn’t even a bloody plan. But there’s a plan for horse racing so that ok.

Bluntness, - such sensible posts, always agree with what you write.

@BigChocFrenzy

"The issue of schools reopening is separate to the issue of pubs and restaurants reopening. "

No it isn't, if every relaxation measure increases R0 to some extent, then let's prioritise schools first,
then see after a couple of weeks if the hospitality sector can be reopened

Also, children spread the virus far less than adults

"It’s about the companies and staff who work in those industries and the financial hardship that would be faced if they remain closed."

The right of children to go to school was stopped because it was more important to save lives of the elderly and those with health conditions.
OK, most countries made that decision

but imo education of 15 million students should come before hospitality sector jobs.

The UK is continually putting children at the bottom of the priority list.

This. 100%

The difference between reopening pubs and fully reopening schools is obvious.

You only have to look at all the threads on MN to see the amount of people saying 'well I won't be sending my DC back until X, Y or Z happens, the government are throwing DC/teachers to the wolves and they might DIE, will this be compulsory? What are my legal rights? Can I remove my children from school? Will they lose their place? Will I be fined if they don't go? What if someone else in the household is vulnerable? What about this bubble plan and this plan and this plan, what if this child is infected, what happens? etc etc etc

No-ones going to ask those questions of pubs reopening - you can go to the pub if you want or don't go if you don't want to. That's it.