UK set to be the pariahs of Europe thanks to our government's mishandling of the crisis

[effingterrified]

www.theguardian.com/travel/2020/may/29/britain-left-off-safe-list-of-countries-free-to-holiday-in-greece

Britain left off 'safe list' of countries free to holiday in Greece

"The UK was not included on a list of 29 countries released by Athens on Friday deemed to fit an “epidemiological profile” that makes travel from them relatively safe."

Greece decided to ban British travellers on safety grounds even though "the UK is one of Greece’s biggest markets. Last year close to 4 million Britons travelled to Greece, with most heading to its extensive archipelago, which has remained remarkably Covid-free."

How depressing that our government's utter failure to manage the disease, giving the UK the highest death rates in Europe, means that we have now become the pariahs of Europe.

I'll ignore the witless ad hominem and address the point made in the second paragraph, trapped.

Do you think that other countries generally should be following Greece's lead, and banning UK citizens?

Do you think, more generally, that it is still too early for international travel to resume?

It's bizarre and I can't quite get my head around the whole travel issue. So to begin with everyone wanted our borders closed. Then we tried to allow some countries in, but actually you can't do that said EU. You either have to let everyone in, or no-one. But then lots of other countries said only you and you and you can come in, which seems to be deemed acceptable. Then we said OK, we'll open borders, but then everyone has to go into isolation. Then everyone else said, well if you are doing that, we will do that too. Basically the whole thing is fubar.

Didn’t even need to open the thread to know who had started it 🙄

"Then we tried to allow some countries in, but actually you can't do that said EU."

When did that happen? Do you have a link.

I think that is entirely untrue. AFAIK, most EU countries closed their borders as they chose.

If the UK citizens are living in the UK then absolutely they should, why wouldn't they?

Any travel to and from the UK is not a good idea at the present time, although the 2 week quarantine on arrival is. That said I doubt any country would want to risk coming here anytime soon.

effingterrified you really want the UK to be the worst don't you. You talk like we are the worst and when people point out the records of other countries you don't want to hear about them.

And did you forget again to allow for population size when claiming we have the worst death rate?

Btw last I heard we were still getting illegal immigrants. That's a vote for us isn't it? They must think the UK is a good place to be.

Agree, trapped.

What do you think of the suggestion that has been made, that all "clean" countries ie those with no/very low numbers of current infections should form one travel bloc, and all "infected" countries with high numbers of current infections should form another bloc, allowed only to travel to those countries?

And do you think people in the UK would mind - or even notice - that they had been relegated to the "infected" bloc, as long as they got their holidays?

*But that doesn't help people who had a holiday booked in Greece for this summer.

But who now can't go because the UK death rates are too high for Greece to risk letting UK citizens into their country*

Most summer holidays have been cancelled, either by the company or by the people who had intended to travel. The FCO still advises against all but essential travel, meaning insurance would be invalid. So the fact that Britain is not on the approved list for travel to Greece - which will be reviewed only 2 weeks after Greece opens its borders to tourists - makes little practical difference.

But you know that, as it's been pointed out to you several times already.

You're going to be incredibly cross if Greece welcomes British tourists after the next review, aren't you?

What do you think of the suggestion that has been made, that all "clean" countries ie those with no/very low numbers of current infections should form one travel bloc, and all "infected" countries with high numbers of current infections should form another bloc, allowed only to travel to those countries

Sounds good to me.

And do you think people in the UK would mind - or even notice - that they had been relegated to the "infected" bloc, as long as they got their holidays

Whether they minded or not there's nothing they can do about it.

As for the term "relegated" why use it? Do you believe that other infected countries are beneath the UK ordinarily and it pains you to think that we are now the same?

You seem very cross that other countries are daring to put their own residents health and well being over the Uk's desire for 2 weeks in the sun. Why is that? Were you planning to go to Greece and are now slightly miffed that they don't want you?

Laughing stock?

Did we laugh at Sweden when they tried a different way and it started to backfire?

Did we laugh at New York when they had to bury bodies in the mass graves outside the city for the homeless and poverty stricken dead?

Did we laugh at Spain when they kept their children under house arrest, not even allowed out for exercise for 3 months and still their death rate was slow to fall?

Did we laugh at France because they took the decision to burn a million PPE masks weeks before the pandemic hit?

So why do you assume we are a laughing stock and a pariah??

And do you think people in the UK would mind - or even notice - that they had been relegated to the "infected" bloc, as long as they got their holidays?

Hold on, I thought you were outraged that some people might not get 2 weeks in Greece this summer?

I used the term "relegated" as I think - criticise away - that being in the "infected" bloc is worse than being in the "clean" bloc that has hardly any infections.

I'm not sure how you could read anything else into that term?

I'd love to go to Greece but think they are clearly being sensible in keeping their borders closed to reduce infections.

I think it's a great shame that the UK did not close borders to at the minimum quarantine visitors from other countries months ago, when doing so would have made a big difference to our infection rates.

I'm unclear why the Government allowed eg thousands of Spanish football fans to go to Liverpool in March, when those same Spanish football fans were banned from attending football matches in their own country due to the high number of cases there. That decision seems reckless in the extreme.

Imposing quarantine on foreign visitors now seems to be shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted. It doesn't hurt, but it would have been much better introduced back in February, not June.

ITonyah - no idea why you thought that.

Lovely to see you, though, ITonyah. You do always love my threads, don't you! I know you will always pop up!

I used the term "relegated" as I think - criticise away - that being in the "infected" bloc is worse than being in the "clean" bloc that has hardly any infections

These 'blocs' don't actually exist outside of your head though.

Yes they do.

Do I have to be your google every time? Just look it up.

Do I have to be your google every time?

You've not provided me with a single piece of information I didn't already know so...no.

These 'blocs' don't exist.

ITonyah - re "laughing stock".

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/12/uk-takes-a-pasting-from-worlds-press-over-coronavirus

Also: leftfootforward.org/2020/05/tory-donor-calls-uk-government-a-laughing-stock/

The world's press is not laughing at the numbers of dead, they are laughing at our Government's response to it - and particularly the Dominic Cummings debacle, which is bizarre by any standards.

Back on topic - who thinks that other countries should ban British tourists due to the high infection rate here?

Or do you think that they are BU, and that British tourists should be allowed to travel anyway?

There are a number of reasons why some countries have had a worse time with covid than others and crap government response is only one.

Could you name some, please, that explain why the UK has the worst death rates in Europe, by some measures the world?

Because I'm not seeing it. I know the British like to think we are exceptional, but I don't actually see any reason other than catastrophic government mishandling of the crisis that would single out the UK for such a terrible outcome.

• The UK is a very densely populated country.
• The UK has an aging population.
• The UK has the highest number of obese people in Europe.
• The UK trades around the world more than any EU member state and therefore has more people travelling.

Yes, the government made some mistakes which had an impact. Most significantly, sending people back to care homes without testing them first. Failure to stop large events was another. Otherwise, there's not much they reasonably could have done which would change outcomes. Politicians like to flatter themselves about the power add influence they have. In reality, the world largely carries on whatever they do.

I've just looked at some graphs in the FT. By none of the measures were the UK the worst.

ITonyah - no idea why you thought that

I can't speak for ITonyah, but I thought the same as she did, from your reply to another poster

But that doesn't help people who had a holiday booked in Greece for this summer.

But who now can't go because the UK death rates are too high for Greece to risk letting UK citizens into their country

Ridiculous hardly any countries in the list and again being reviewed early July
Don't think France , Belgium , etc can say much about our rates as similar or worse per capita especially as not all countries are even including the same data

@effing but they don't have the highest death rate per capita and if aren't all reporting the same ( we report all confirmed cases) then can't compare yet
You state this in every post go check out worldometer