UK set to be the pariahs of Europe thanks to our government's mishandling of the crisis

[effingterrified]

www.theguardian.com/travel/2020/may/29/britain-left-off-safe-list-of-countries-free-to-holiday-in-greece

Britain left off 'safe list' of countries free to holiday in Greece

"The UK was not included on a list of 29 countries released by Athens on Friday deemed to fit an “epidemiological profile” that makes travel from them relatively safe."

Greece decided to ban British travellers on safety grounds even though "the UK is one of Greece’s biggest markets. Last year close to 4 million Britons travelled to Greece, with most heading to its extensive archipelago, which has remained remarkably Covid-free."

How depressing that our government's utter failure to manage the disease, giving the UK the highest death rates in Europe, means that we have now become the pariahs of Europe.

lljkk - don't think anyone was suggesting the rest of the Mediterranean had suddenly disappeared, no.

Your point was...?

effingterrified

Europe has much more important things to worry about than the UK. Macron is under fire for allowing billions of masks to be incinerated back in March. None of the EU members want to bail out Italy. Northern Europe can't sell the idea to its voters. This has been described as an existential threat to the EU. Covid is costing the holiday destinations of Club Med serious economic damage. Aren't you aware of any of this OP?

Wry amusement. Not long ago the British people decided they didn't need Europe and would stand alone. Now they are standing alone and they are complaining that they aren't allowed their holiday....

BTW OP. Greece offered the UK an air bridge agreement - you don't quarantine our people and we won't quarantine yours. Our government refused the offer.

Waxonwaxoff0 - why are you commenting on the thread if all you want to do is to tell me to stop posting factual things because they make you sad?

I find the fact that the UK has the highest death rates in Europe makes me very sad, but unlike you, I don't think the best response is to just ignore that, and allow our death rates to continue to be higher than every other country.

I think if this makes people stop and think, Shit, even Greece thinks we've handled this crappily, then that is a good thing, as it will encourage people to look at how our Government can improve its response going forward.

You might prefer the ostrich approach, I prefer the saving lives approach.

Europe has much more important things to worry about than the UK

This is the thing which always amuses me. So many on MN seem to think that Europeans - and indeed people all over the world - have nothing better to do than point the finger at Britain. I think someone called it 'reverse exceptionalism'.

In fact, as you say, most people are much more concerned about the - often grim - situations in their own countries and more interested in critiquing their own govts than they are in what's going on in Britain. To read MN, you'd swear everywhere other than Britain was in a wonderful state.

BovaryX - there is a MASSIVE SQUIRREL over there.

Aren't you aware of any of this, BovaryX?

Good attempt at a derail, though.

IcedPurple - Greece clearly IS worried about the UK's exceptionally high death rates. They haven't banned our tourists and all the lovely cash they bring with them for fun.

I don't quite get your point?

Moondust001 - do you have a link for that claim?

Ta.

Your threads don't make me sad.

I'm pretty sure people don't need you to tell them that the government has handled this badly. It's easy to figure that out by ourselves. Posting a thread on mumsnet about Greece isn't going to save lives.

I think if this makes people stop and think, Shit, even Greece thinks we've handled this crappily, then that is a good thing, as it will encourage people to look at how our Government can improve its response going forward

How will people ‘thinking’ they’ve handled it crappily mean that they change their response? I mean, most of us have been thinking it all along and that hasn’t improved anything so far. Thinking it doesn’t change anything. You actually have to do something. Are you doing anything OP (other than start threads on MN)? Lobbying your MP for example?

This isn’t Greece making a judgement about how we have handled it. It’s Greece looking at our current numbers and reckoning they’re too high to be worth the risk. Not the same thing at all. Just like being a pariah isn’t the same as being one of a group of countries that still has a high infection rate.
There are a number of reasons why some countries have had a worse time with covid than others and crap government response is only one.

"UK has the highest death rates"

What denominator are you using when you say "rate" -- is it time, so the rate is Xmany/deaths over Xcount of days? Some folk would say a better denominator is per million inhabitants. On that basis, UK is not worst in Europe. You could get more sophisticated, and count deaths per million residents age 60+ (since almost all the deaths are in persons age 60+), or you could also concentrate on only the last month say, so then we can adjust in some kind of way for how covid got to places like Brazil later.

I bet if we looked at rate per million residents age 60+, that Belgium, Italy, Iran & Spain are all worse than UK. Probably others, including maybe some surprises like Brazil.

Airbridge link offer from Greece, 20 May 2020, 10 days ago.

... Britain turned the airbridge offer down. It was supposed to apply to Portugal, Spain & Greece.

I love that term Reverse Exceptionalism!

Is this the same as all the people who think other mothers are shooting them evil looks on the school run? When the actual truth is that nobody gives a shit and is just getting on with life?

Why do you think someone in ANY foreign country is sitting at home worrying about what the UK is doing, or drawing comparisons? They're not.

This whole "pariah state" thing is just ridiculous.

Total misleading thread title. Yes there have been some disgusting failings of this government. I'm the first to agree.

But pointless, false threads like this are just like the click bait shares on facebook.

Either shared by idiots or intended for idiots.

'Pariah of Europe'?! Looks like we're in good company.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel - "There are a number of reasons why some countries have had a worse time with covid than others and crap government response is only one."

Could you name some, please, that explain why the UK has the worst death rates in Europe, by some measures the world?

Because I'm not seeing it. I know the British like to think we are exceptional, but I don't actually see any reason other than catastrophic government mishandling of the crisis that would single out the UK for such a terrible outcome.

GabriellaMontez - well, just walk on by then if you're not interested.

I'm not asking you to share the thread on Facebook or anywhere else.

It’s interesting isn’t it? You see it so often on here. ‘Other countries are watching the UK in horror’ etc. The idea that they were all meekly obeying every rule while we were off ‘flouting’ left, right and centre because we’re so selfish and stupid.
I have close friends and family in Italy, france and spain, having lived in those countries. None of them gave a shiny shit what the UK were doing, they were too busy criticising the failings of their own governments (main criticisms being.. guess what? Lack of PPE, failure to protect those in care homes, failure to lockdown quick enough) and watching in horror as their own death tolls rose:

I don’t blame them.

I’m in awe of people who can’t seem to grasp that international travel has changed, albeit hopefully temporarily (and temporarily meaning months possibly over a year).

We don’t even know what the long term effects of covid are, why would any country be encouraging more potential cases?

I thought Sweden held that particular crown 🤔

We are already pariahs unfortunately.

There are numerous factors which feed into the course of this disease in different countries, yes there are lots of ways in which our government is crap the same is true of other governments.

Drivingdownthe101 - As I haven't claimed that France, Spain or Italy responded perfectly, I'm not sure what your point is.

In Greece, the subject of this thread, local people have been extremely proud of the fact that their little, poor country has handled the pandemic so well.

I don't think 'other countries mishandled the pandemic too, just not quite as badly as the UK based on the death figures, is quite the killer argument you think it is.

B1rdbra1n - so why does have the UK have the worst death rates in Europe then?

If there are 'lots of factors' that apply to all countries?

What is so special about the UK that means more people died unnecessarily here compared to other countries?