UK's daily death rate is now the highest in the world

[effingterrified]

"The UK now has the highest rate of confirmed deaths from Covid-19 worldwide, averaging close to 5 in every million people per day.

Figures from the last seven days show that the average death rate in the UK is now more than that of France and Italy combined."

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/coronavirus-uk-death-toll-rate-world-map-tracked-a9532286.html

www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-way-covid-deaths-are-being-counted-is-a-national-scandal
OP, you should read this article
We cannot trust the numbers the government reports

No, you're right that the excess death figures show that Covid 19 deaths are being vastly under reported by this government. Real numbers of deaths are over 50% higher.

Excess death figures are really the only reliable way of comparing countries and these show that the UK has one of the worst records in the world for coronavirus deaths (probably the worst in the world per capita, as the only country reporting more deaths than us, the US, has a population that is over 5 times as big).

We need to normalise mask wearing. I am baffled as to why we aren’t, when it is so simple, and it helps cut transmission.
As I understand it in the very early days opinion was split on this. Scientists were unsure if mask wearing actually INCREASED transmission because people wearing them touch their faces more. Opinion seems settled now though that they DO help cut transmission. Mask (or face cover) wearing would be very easy to make compulsory in public. Not doing so is yet another failure of government.

Yeah. Masks would make it ok to get back to normal. But only if everyone wears them. And most people in the UK are anti-masks bizarrely as if they know best (um, they've done the worst in the world so far).

So embarrassed for this country and hoping my DC will go and live elsewhere. Yet, then watch Springwatch and faith is restored to some extent in the general goodness of people in the UK and how beautiful it is

I understand that Spectator article to be saying that Covid deaths in the U.K. are over reported not under....
The pathology doctor writing it states that the process of recording deaths was changed at the beginning of lockdown to mean that no longer did two doctors have to agree on the cause of death but only one could decide. And that in care homes, non medical staff could put Covid on the death certificate even without a positive test and just going off symptoms.
This is a ‘rumour’ I’ve heard many times before but seeing it written down by a pathologist just confirms it for me.
Very interesting article.

The Spectator is right-wing and traditionally a big supporter of the government. Hardly surprising they've managed to find a scientist to downplay the death rate. However , it's true the death recording lacks consistency. That's why, as said upthread, excess deaths are going to be the most reliable rate to look at.

The UK's excess death rate is shocking, so I look forward to the Spectator article explaining that.

The excess rate is shocking but a lot of those deaths resulted because operations got cancelled even urgent ones. I personally know someone whose husband died in May at the age of 30 because his urgent heart operation was cancelled in March. It is very tragic. It was wrong to cancel everything.

The excess deaths is staggering, whichever way you look at it. Most are of course covid and some of the excess not accounted for by covid will be undercounting of coronavirus deaths or "collateral damage" i.e heart attacks that did not get to hosptial in time etc. The government is admitting to 37,000 - to ons say this is 47,000 ( small print up to two weeks ago) and then there are at least 10,000 on top ( maybe unreported or other deaths). Trying to say the government is over reporting coronavirus deaths is ludicrous.

Is it really wrong to cancel an operation if the surgeon thinks the risk is too great?
Is it wrong to cancel an operation if there are no intensive care beds available ?
These things were not cancelled on a whim , but because our government took action too late to control the virus

These things were not cancelled on a whim but because our government took action too late to control the virus
This. It's heartbreaking that, unlike other countries, we'll have to wait far longer to get back to proper normal - particularly with medical treatment given the continuing high hospital r rate. If only we'd followed the lead of other countries and tackled Covid properly.

Yes if those who dont want to believe the death rate and think doctors and tests are wrong,, then the alternative is surely even worse. I do think the extra excess is awful and seems very bad for England.

Dr John Lee is known as a bit of a nutter / outlier - best not to use him in support of arguments that UK is overcounting / there should never have been any lockdown if you want to be taken seriously

If only we'd followed the lead of other countries and tackled Covid properly.

What, you mean like people with symptoms who were TOLD to self isolate but went on holiday, went to Cheltenham Races, went to Anfield football, etc?

You mean like people were told to regularly wash their hands but still didn't bother after going to the loo?

Even when we locked-down, far too many people just carried on as normal.

How would you propose to police the regulations? More police? Army on the streets?

Heres a thing ...we knew it was coming, we are an isalnd, yes a bloody island!!! You couldn't make it up.

re masks, I watched ( at a distance) in a small queue, a woman with a dirty disposable mask on and off her face...why?

About masks, it is shocking that our Government chose to ignore the advice of its own scientists for three weeks about the need to wear masks:

metro.co.uk/2020/05/30/ministers-issued-face-coverings-advice-three-weeks-scientists-advice-12779154/

The refusal to recommend let alone mandate public mask wearing (unlike many other countries including much of Europe) is one of the strongest indications yet that our government's policy really look like eugenics. That, and the UK's outlier status re no border restrictions and the deliberate infection of care homes.

Even with a shortsighted more haste, less gain focus on the 'economy' (meaning a few very rich imposing risks on the UK from a safe distance of private islands), there's little economical loss in mandatory mask wearing.

I wonder if the reluctance of the Gov around masks is about CCTV and facial recognition?

No, I think it was probably about the fact there was a mask shortage in care homes etc and the government couldn't be arsed to organise the production of more (not as though they are difficult to produce).

Or it was eugenics.

It's criminal.

Countries like Thailand which wear masks have barely any deaths - 57 to our 60,000. Even though Thailand has a bigger population than the UK.

I believe many people are trying to retro-justify or criticise the decisions that were taken during a time when the science was exploratory. As well as scrambling for essential PPE when everyone wanted it, now, NOW.

It may matter to you that we didn't have the best score in the world, but it doesn't matter to me, although a family friend died today having contracted Covid-19 in hospital; admitted for leukaemia. Most healthy people who contract the disease recover, and the vast majority of those who don't are old enough to be at risk of natural death or have serious co-morbidities before becoming ill.

For anyone who has elderly infirm family members they love, I send my best hopes for full recovery, but this disease does seem to affect the oldest and most frail. In health terms, that is as it should be. But I do feel for anyone who is grieving a loss.

So how come other countries did so much better than us? Was their science not exploratory too?

And that doesn't explain why our government still can't get its act together.

Why do we still not have a working track and trace system, when other countries have had these up and running for months? Apparently it won't be working now till Sept.

This is inexcusable.

@XingMing I believe many people are trying to retro-justify or criticise the decisions that were taken during a time when the science was exploratory not true - the dna was known in january and the altruistic scientists were out there warning the world in january. We know more now but the scientists knew and were communicating one hell of a lot back then too.