UK's daily death rate is now the highest in the world

[effingterrified]

"The UK now has the highest rate of confirmed deaths from Covid-19 worldwide, averaging close to 5 in every million people per day.

Figures from the last seven days show that the average death rate in the UK is now more than that of France and Italy combined."

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/coronavirus-uk-death-toll-rate-world-map-tracked-a9532286.html

XingMing
Yes. We should follow their lead. It's a very good healthcare system.

DippyAvocado
Very good post.
It's astounding how little outcry there has been about the death rates here
This is why our death rate is so high. All those avoidable deaths. (and it's also why we face a slower economic recovery and slower return to proper normal).
The public acceptance. Indeed more than acceptance. Many have been falling all over themselves in attempts to downplay and justify it.

It's a shame they don't put the same effort into calling for the measures we need, measures other countries have taken, to mitigate further damage.

We are top of excess death measures for this time period compared with everywhere else. There's no getting away from it.

The numbers aren't great, but you still have to think in terms of deaths per million of population.

If an island somewhere had a population of 150 and 149 died you wouldn't praise them for having fewer total deaths than the UK.

UK population density = 259 people per square kilometre

But England does have a very high population density. Probably the highest in Europe. You only have to look at a density map of Europe to see just how overcrowded England is

South Korea population density = 503 people per square kilometre
Hong Kong population density = 6,659 people per square kilometre

You don't need me to tell you that South Korea and Hong Kong have had hardly any deaths, despite being very close to the source of the outbreak in China

But those places, HK is not a country BTW, had experienced SARS and were prepared

In the UK. All the top 30 population density counties are in England
These are the top 4
UK COUNTY
POPULATION DENSITY
1.Greater London 5,591
2.West Midlands 3,176
3.Greater Manchester 2,181
4.West Yorkshire 1,126

Re numbers and counting, worldometers has a section where it explains data gathering and analysis, and any anomalies/gaps - which there are, but not so as to override the figures comparisons in a significant way I don't think.

It's astounding how little outcry there has been about the death rates here. I'm sure it will come eventually, when we are looking back.

I'm not. People are bending over backwards to excuse Boris and Gov piss poor performance on covid.
Don't worry Tories, Trump, Putin and Bolsonaro will be riding to Boris's rescue soon with worse death rates. Plus, if the Oxford vaccine proves successful he can claim the credit for that.

@flaxmeadow you mentioned high HK density - HK has counted its figures separately from China and has done pretty well - so density alone isn't the most significant factor in relation to UK numbers - it is how the UK has handled it compared to HK, more likely. The expertise of HK re SARS - indeed, the leading scientists from HK were issuing advice and warnings to the UK and the rest of the world back in January.

The UK has never taken CV seriously, it was all about preventing the NHS from being overwhelmed, death & suffering was secondary.

The tories didn't want the public to see the reality of their disinvestment in the NHS, so emptied the wards of the elderly and put them out of sight in private care homes & stopped almost all other NHS treatments.

Don't believe this? then explain why Italy, with more beds, doc's and nurses couldn't cope even with a lower death and infection rate to the UK? they tried to treat everyone, the UK kept them at home to die, the numbers prove this, (as does talking to a CV 111 call handler (we can only call an ambulance IF the patient cannot breath) daily care and community deaths are on par or out number hospital ones... ONS figures show 47000 direct CV deaths, 23000 were in hospital.

We've a right wing electorate that will excuse very high death tolls, Johnson & Cummings know this, so can muddle through regardless.

Just read a report saying that Italy may well have a further 19000 Covid deaths to add to their official figure. Their office of statistics are still counting. The suggestion is they are deaths of people unable to gain access to healthcare at the height of their outbreak. It was an EU news source.

We weren't taking people to hospital because they were overwhelmed

There is no evidence of this.

And yet most of the threads on here are full of people counting down the days until they can social distance their way around John Lewis, gleefully encouraging others to go and visit elderly parents, and boasting about following Dominic Cummings lead. If you suggest that maybe we ought to be a bit careful still or at least wear masks you are a demented, terrified, furlough loving destroyer of the economy

But England does have a very high population density. Probably the highest in Europe. You only have to look at a density map of Europe to see just how overcrowded England is

Overcrowded is probably taking it a bit too far, but comparing a country’s density by landmass against population is a blunt tool. Using a country like Sweden is a prime example. It is consistently referred to as having an incredibly low population density of 22/km2. But this ignores the fact that 85% of the country is uninhabitable. Take that out of the equation and it jumps to 123/km2. Stockholm has double that. Still low compared to many but wrong to use the 22/km2 as a comparator.

There may be different ways of counting Covid-19 deaths, but actually excess deaths aren't so prone to those measuring issues. We are top of excess death measures for this time period compared with everywhere else. There's no getting away from it.

This bears repeating . Our excess deaths compared to a similar period over the latst 5 years are close to 60,000 at the moment. That isn 1 extra person in every 1,000 people in the UK dying over the last 3 months..That is quite a lot of extra deaths

Perhaps the likelihood that England would be more vulnerable due to a high population density should have prompted earlier action by the government, rather than just being used as an excuse afterwards.

True but our deaths per million are still the second highest in the world

No they aren't? We're 5th behind San Marino, Belgium, Andorra and Spain. And we've got quite a long way to go to catch Spain at number 4.

Our death rate is bad but there's no point in making things seem even worse than they are. And our cases are coming down. Things are getting better.

I don't know how reliable the death rates on WHO are anyway. How can the USA rate that isn't far off half of ours yet have so many more cases per million. And how can Russia have the 3rd highest number of cases but hardly any deaths. I'm sure there are lots of questions to be explored over the next few years.

It really depends on which bar chart you look at. The true figures won't be known for months.

I think that we need to stop reporting on the UK and start referring to it as England, measures implemented are on a devolved basis, 80%+ of figures refer to England. The other nations have had a seemingly successful approach thus far.

Andorra?

How can the USA rate that isn't far off half of ours yet have so many more cases per million. And how can Russia have the 3rd highest number of cases but hardly any deaths.
Early treatment.

Our death rate is bad but there's no point in making things seem even worse than they are.
It's not about making worse than it is. It's quite bad enough. It's about saying hang on, this is dreadful. Let's (very belatedly) do something to stop it getting even worse.
Burying heads in sand and downplaying is what got us to this point. We act now to prevent further avoidable deaths.

Can't believe (quite literally) the people trying to minimise the horrific UK death rates.

Who benefits from doing this?

Clue: it's not the British public.

I’ve only read the first and last page so don’t know if this has been mentioned but surely our high death rate is in part down to our poor health outcomes.
We have a huge problem here in the U.K. with obesity, type 2 diabetes, heart disease and other lifestyle associated illnesses.
Although smoking has decreased in the last couple of decades, obesity and its associated risks have risen exponentially. Coupled with people living longer (which is generally a good thing) who tend to often develop age related issues such as dementia.

Andorra is so small that one or two deaths can really skew the %, they've only had about 50 deaths haven't they? There population is so small compared to most, it's about 0.1% of ours, so a couple of extended families getting it could double their death rate.

I think Cheltenham/Anfield/Stereophonics etc gave Covid a flying start in England.

Not every country is using the same criteria for reporting deaths from Covid.

Looking at the excess deaths, I notice other countries lagging behind in their reporting. eg Italy still ‘only’ (!) on 24,500 up to 31st March.

Covid causes heart attacks (and strokes) in some patients.

Excactly. If someone has a heart attack while they are suffering from Covid, it highly likely (though I admit not absolutely certain) that Covid significantly contributed to the heart attack.

One of my uncles died of a heart attack but it was caused by his stomach cancer reaching his heart muscles. Although his heart stopped, the cause was the cancer. that is what was on his death certificate, not 'heart attack'
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