Surely everyone who was going to die from corona will do eventually

[sunshineanddaffodils]

Unless we all stay locked up at home forever or unless a vaccination or cure is discovered.

I think we're getting desensitised to the numbers, tbh. 43,000 died over the course of just over 8 months in The Blitz and it is still taught to all children as part of history. A similar number of people have died in 4 months of Coronavirus and people are shrugging their shoulders saying "well they would have died anyway..."

This ^^

"The measure of a country's greatness should be based on how well it cares for its most vulnerable populations." Mahatma Gandhi

the entire country locked down for the vulnerable and the NHS. some have lost their business', livelihoods and seen their mental health considerably tank for the greater good. just because a small minority have continued to do what they want, dont discredit the majority who have put their lives on hold so the vulnerable could have a chance. majority have actually handled and accepted this huge upheaval to their lives commendably at a big cost to themselves. I think its insulting to suggest otherwise

I think we're in a very shit situation and whatever happens there's going to be very poor outcomes for lots of people

DS is 11, he has a brain tumour that requires very regular check ups to manage his condition ( he's already been through chemotherapy). He's already missed two vital appointments and we've received a letter today to say the next will be a telephone call app, better than nothing but they can't actually do any physical checks ( and nor can I). He's at a crucial part as it's known his type of tumour reacts to puberty- he's 11 - so we know he's high risk. I've just got to hope we come out of this as quickly as possible to get back to the appointments and pray that we haven't been missing crucial months of treatment. He might not be vulnerable to coronavirus, but he's a vulnerable person for this reason.

We just need this hell over with, in the safest way possible.

Lots of entitled fuckers on MN today. Just horrible.

the entire country locked down for the vulnerable

No, they really didn't. The country locked down to prevent total collapse of the NHS and massed deaths if the whole population got this at one time. That was the only reason.

dont discredit the majority who have put their lives on hold so the vulnerable could have a chance.

Utter bollocks. This was solely about the government trying to manage the country situation, the majority didn't 'put their lives on hold' for the shielded who are shielding, or the vulnerable many of which have had to carry on working. Oddly enough the vulnerable also have 'put their lives on hold' and lost their businesses, seen their incomes and mental health tank, because for many of them you wouldn't pick them out of a crowd as being any different to anyone else, so please don't discredit them either. They did what the government instructed just like everyone else. That's the trouble with the sick and disabled, they don't fit nicely in to a box you can 'other' and dehumanise.

I do think a large number of those who have died would die anyway

yes captain obvious, no one seem to have gone very far with that elixir of eternal life

@bellinisurge what does that even mean? entitled to what exactly? freedom of speech? or is it just talk of actual freedom you find so abhorrent?

as I said before, you cannot police what everyone else does and how they feel. I think its "just horrible" that some have lost their livelihoods and are being driven to suicidal thoughts because they fear they cant provide for their families or are being driven to despair because they are genuinely worried their life will never be good again and theyll never be able to see or spend time with their loved ones again. I also do feel for people who are at risk for this horrible virus. the two things arent mutually exclusive.

you can have empathy for others whilst accepting that, sadly, in one way or another, some people are going to loose their lives whether directly or indirectly because of this awful pandemic.

@bellinisurge. Assuming you mean me and the others questioning how we tackle the lockdown balance.

Do you understand what the word entitled actually means or do you just throw it around as a casual insult? No one on this thread has been entitled. We all acknowledge that this is not a zero sum game and that people will be damaged or will die no matter what we do. We just have a different perspective on it. You and the hysterical lockdowners try to close discussion down with a “you’re all callous murderers who want us dead” rhetoric.

Entitled to get whatever the fuck they want and if anyone explains the negative consequence they are against freedom of speech and other ridiculous bollocks.

The OP's opening statement that "those" people are inevitably going to die anyway is one of the nastiest posts I've read for a long time.
Of course I want us to open up. Of course I can see what this is doing to everyone. I live in the world too, you know.
When it's safe to do so.

@Bartlet

Thankfully you’re not in charge.

And thankfully neither are you. What a horrible world it would be if people like you made life or death decisions.

Thankfully most people ar more humane.

It will NEVER be safe to do so.

We were never safe from infectious diseases before and we never will be,

Lockdown was never safe either. And it get more and more dangerous and harmful as it goes on.

People who want to restrict the entitlements of others to freedom of movement and association, and the right to be educated, until it's SAFE are scary fuckers altogether.

OP, perhaps look at this tribute page from BBC news
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52676411

It's incredibly affecting, my thoughts are with those who have lost loved ones

Lockdown was never safe either. And it get more and more dangerous and harmful as it goes on.

with so many reports about what a real lockdown was in various countries around us, aren't people cringing about whining so much about our very relax situation?

@Bartlet , if you don't think "they were all going to die anyway " is callous, you need to have a careful think about it.
I don't call people who want us to open up everything now "murderers" - sense of fucking perspective here.
I call them impatient. I call the ones who expect everything to be ready and waiting for them fucking entitled numpties.

@vengeancer seems to me the point is "let them die since they will anyway and let the rest of us get on with our lives"🤦

@Tonkerbea

Thank you for that link, I hadn't seen it before. Incredibly humbling and I strongly suspect not fitting the idea the OP has of people 'who would have died anyway'

@LemonPudding. People like me are in charge of this type of things. Decisions are made at population level which would be inhumane at an individual level. It’s the whole concept of the greater good.

Name another disease in the last 100 years that has clogged up ICUs in a matter of weeks in developed countries.

It's completely normal for ICUs to be 'clogged up'.

www.theguardian.com/society/2019/dec/29/nhs-picu-shortage-intensive-care-beds-critically-ill-children

with so many reports about what a real lockdown was in various countries around us, aren't people cringing about whining so much about our very relax situation?

LOL

It always comes out eventually.

Their disappointment that their totalitarian preferences weren't as indulged here in the UK as they would have been if they had been lucky enough to live in Wuhan.

I think it causes them physical pain that we are just causing our children massive emotional hard when in Spain they locked them indoors for weeks on end and denied them outdoor exercise and access to sunlight.

Why do we have to live in such a namby pamby country?

WE COULD HAVE LOCKED PEOPLE UP EVEN MORE. waaaaaaah!!!

I mean sure, it's clear at this point that we definitely didn't need to for the reasons I'm given for lockdown being important.

But it would have been SO AWESOME.

Posts like this are a bit disgusting. I have a BMI just over 40, and have had provoked blood clots in the past. We know that BMI is a comorbidity that also is directly linked to higher death rates and that covid causes clotting in some people. I am vulnerable but not shielding so to the government and general society, I should just crack on and accept that I could die if I got covid severely.
I have a child, and a partner. We have no savings that would help exponentially if I were to die.
But I should just "accept some people are going to die" and shut up because I'm young and otherwise healthy and people just want to get back to normal.

it id your choice to stay in though if you wanted to? that is your right - people are not condemning you to death by wanting to get back to some kind of normality of some kind. if you are concerned then it is up to you to risk assess for yourself which is what you will have to do at some point anyway

is*

people are not condemning you to death by wanting to get back to some kind of normality

I can see it's not personal. Just rather careless of other people's lives

what you will have to do at some point anyway

But so much better if done after not just before) we knew that test/teack/trace was fully in situ and actually working. Weouid all be so much safe just waiting for that single step - which is one of the 5 tests, so not something new, unexpected, or not part of the lifting strategy from the outset.