Surely everyone who was going to die from corona will do eventually

[sunshineanddaffodils]

Unless we all stay locked up at home forever or unless a vaccination or cure is discovered.

I see it as the longer that we can delay catching it (although hope for a vaccine so we don’t catch it) the more that will be known about how to treat it and the chances of survival will be higher (although people will still die). They are already learning by trial and error and things like the plasma antibody trial isn’t a standard treatment for severe cases yet (if it works which hopefully it will help)

I'll let my friend know it's all ok op.

Her 19 year old grandson has been in hospital for a month with this thing, they've recently found he's been inhaling food into his lungs. I say recently because hey haven't been examining him properly.

He's disabled but physically very healthy, healthier than most people. I've never known him to take a day off school even.

So he's clueless. He can't speak and doesn't understand what people say to him, so if he dies it will be scarier and lonelier and traumatic. He will not have a clue what's going on as he drowns in his own fluid.

Those who know him will be devastated. He's adored by everyone and his death will be drawn out and painful. More so because he won't be able to do things like physio to help clear his chest. He wouldn't understand the instruction. Even to cough.

But that's ok. He was going to die anyway.

And despite being perfectly healthy for 19 years his death will be registered as someone with an underlying health condition as he is disabled so the likes of you can pay yourself on the back and think it only happens to other people, the ones who are going to die anyway.........doesn't matter if it's 50 years too early.

Do that’s at least 1/3 of the country (based on number of flu jabs the NHS buys every year)

It might be more than that. Our trust sent home anyone in the shielding group and then set a looser criteria than the government and suggested those weren’t in work either. It covers the most at risk in the vulnerable group. They backtracked slightly when it turned out to be about a third of the staff.

No idea who’s going to be treating all these patients when we’ve got exponential growth if at least 1/3 are isolating at home and a significant proportion are off sick or self -isolating because they’ve been in contact with someone with the disease. Not really sure how this is going to lead to other stuff getting treated either.

“A bit of patience and self-sacrifice”.

Understatement of the year. We are about to enter a recession the size, implications and lengths of which will last for decades.

It is a completely valid question whether that kind of collective sacrifice is worth it to protect the life expectancy of (mainly) over-80s. It is not being callous to ask whether it is a price (ruined lives v additional life expectancy of the eldest) worth paying.

How many people dying with Covid have you actually seen OP? How many deaths have you been present at?

Do you mean in the sense of everyone dies one day, or that the people who have died were all expendable and due an imminent death?

I'm sure you mean the first, but it's not actually clear that you don't mean the second!

OP, in a way you are right but people who are shielding are obviously going to be scared as they know that if they get it they are likely to die. Plenty of healthy people have died from this too.

People are dealing with it differently, many will be willing to take a risk and would rather return to some kind of normality running the risk of catching it, whilst others will want to avoid it at all costs.

For me I feel the need to get back to some kind of normality, I’m pretty sure I have had the virus, I’m healthy, fit, don’t smoke or drink so the risk is very small for me but I have relatives who would not survive Covid so I would have to continue to avoid seeing them.

These threads are getting stupider by the day

^ this

I get sick of reading of people who say they are sure they have had the virus but have not had any tests or diagnosis by the people who can actually tell them they have!

You know you could put that even more succintly.
Everyone will die eventually.
Bravo!

Understatement of the year. We are about to enter a recession the size, implications and lengths of which will last for decades

@Bartlet, this would be happening regardless of measures taken for reasons outlined in mine and others previous posts. It’s a red herring to point the finger at lockdown for economic damage.

We basically had the choice of a short sharp shock with the virus running rampant or a short sharp shock economically. This government have tried to mitigate the effects of both but both would have ultimately happened. There’s no economy with up to 50% of your workforce off sick.

‘They were going to die anyway’ is a fine thing to say until it’s your parents or your child with underlying health issues.

I hate this attitude, it’s so prevalent. Even people in their early 20s who voted for Corbyn are all ‘we’re here for the little guy/ we’re in this together’ until it disrupts their lives.

I also absolutely hate the underlying assumption that people with disabilities or underlying health conditions somehow have to accept an early death.

I'm likely to get very ill if I get it. I'd rather not die just yet, thanks. I have to rely on people to not be selfish and to look out for those who are vulnerable.

I’m not talking about going to work if you have no way of earning a crust if you don’t, by the way. I understand that. It’s doing other things because you don’t want to compromise your day to day life.

People are dealing with it differently, many will be willing to take a risk and would rather return to some kind of normality running the risk of catching it, whilst others will want to avoid it at all costs.

This isn’t about deciding what works for you personally and not judging people who do differently. If you swan about at a barbecue you’re risking other people and the economy, it’s not just about you.

@LemonPudding exactly. Sorry I’m 38 weeks pregnant and we know the baby has DiGeorge so a really compromised immune system. Hormones + selfish people = angry lady.

@Bartlet I completely agree with you, and i suffer with general and health anxiety quite severely but even I have thought about this. I saw boris Johnson is hoping for a lot of things to be more normal by july/august albeit with social silencing possibly still in place. I can imagine a lot of people, if what I've read on here is anything to go by, that will not agree with this. again, it is your choice to stay in. do as you will but dont villainize others who want to save their livelihoods and their sanity.

mental health matters too

distancing* even

@tartanbow if the impact of going out affected only you and your family I agree it wouldn’t be right to judge. But this whole thing is collective - if you socialise more than you absolutely have to it puts others at risk.

I'm 40 and recovering from covid. Yes I'll die eventually, but every extra day I have from now is a blessing to have with my children.

Whose mental health though tartanbow? The person missing their usual support structure? The person worried about losing their job? The person frightened to go to work? The person trying to shield their vulnerable loved one? The person grieving for a parent already lost that they couldn’t get to? The person stuck in a house with an abusive partner? The list goes on.

There’s not a one size fits all solution is there? What a decent percentage desperately want an equal percentage don’t, both have valid arguments. That’s what the government is for, to look at the overall picture and make those decisions for the good of the majority - be that lockdown or easing out of restrictions.

There needs to be rational discussion about the greater good.

Of course people at higher risk are going to be screaming for endless lockdown as they are scared and see that as being in their best interests.

That does not mean that they should determine what happens. There is no universal happy path here where no one loses. Lives lost are one factor to consider but if that was the only criteria we’d have banned lots of things permanently and have lived in permanent unending lockdown.

The hysteria around some of this shows that people are unable to think rationally. This is not a serious pandemic. % of people dying is incredibly low. Imagine if it had been a more serious one with a much higher death rate?

Unfortunately it appears that our politicians are not very good at it either.

which is exactly why I said when the restrictions do begin to ease even more so those who arent ready dont have to go out do they...

you dont have a right to tell people what to do at all if they are sticking to the guidelines. atm were not allowed to socialise fine but once they do start easing up I can imagine these kind of debates will still be going on by those who think they have been lifted too soon.

in fact you dont have the right to tell others what to do full stop.

‘collective sacrifice is worth it to protect the life expectancy of (mainly) over-80s’

Except of course you’re looking at the with lockdown outturn

The without lockdown death rates, across all age groups, would be considerably higher than they have been. Those are the people you are saying you are willing to sacrifice. Plus about 3-4% of the vulnerable (that’s about 200,000 diabetics of all ages, before you start looking at all the other vulnerable and then about 10% of the shield group - -add 250,000)

Because that’s what a non-lockdown everyone gets it over and done with scenario would produce.

Plus all the excess deaths because so many people are ill for several weeks, so acute care and rehabilitation are just swamped.

If you think the lockdown peak (and proper ending of lockdown, not premature because everyone has to die at some point) caused The worst possible economic damage, I suggest you need to look a little more closely at the scenario that lockdown averted

@tartanbow I agree that when they relax the rules people will have to adhere to them. I also agree that like them or not, those are the rules. However I do think there are a large number of people on this thread who just think that their actions affect them and that they should not be judged if they break the rules if they see fit. They should be judged. They are putting others in danger.

There needs to be rational discussion about the greater good.

Correct, but you can see that this is currently impossible.