Surely everyone who was going to die from corona will do eventually

[sunshineanddaffodils]

Unless we all stay locked up at home forever or unless a vaccination or cure is discovered.

Nihiloxica

If your solution to child abuse is to put everyone at risk instead of actually doing something to protect the ones who need it them, you are looking at the issues in a very naive and lazy way. You are also confusing education with childcare, and that's totally unhelpful.

Instead of yapping that all we need is to open the schools, then you can safely pat yourself on the back and pretend all is well, maybe you should get a bit more involved in the work that needs to be done.

It's just so much easier to ranting on a forum feeling superior doesn't it?

It's not true that it poses NO risk to children. Very few children die, but death is not the only adverse outcome. We still don't know the long term consequences of getting covid.

that's a concept that many MN posters are strongly fighting because it doesn't fit their own views which they confuse with scientific facts.

Reports from various doctors about children and the effects on them goes way above their head.

I've always believed that if your numbers up your numbers up. So I don't believe people die too soon - it was their time
What a load of fatalistic shite. Thankfully human beings have been manipulating our enviroment to improve our lives for many thousands of years, instead of just sitting back waiting for our 'number'. There were would be no antibiotics, no operations, no healthcare of any kind, no research into better diets or sanitation or any of the myriad changes that have been made throughout human history, in order to improve our life expectancy and quality of life.

I am shocked by how coldly Darwinian in their thinking some people are. We are all interconnected. If we don't at least try to support everyone, including the vulnerable, the aftermath of the pandemic will be psychologically grim - the survivors will come out of it tarred and feathered for life.

Yes. We all die of something, though that seems to have been forgotten. We are pretty unlikely to die of Covid - even the over 80s have something like an 80% chance of survival, and bearing in mind that the average age of death in the UK is 79 for men and 83 for women, Covid is no more dangerous than anything else. It is just something else to be added to all the things that kill us, from cancer, stroke and heart disease to car accidents.

Don't twist what I'm saying. I'm not gleefully rubbing my hands together saying get on with dying.
If there's no vaccine or treatment though, what else are you suggesting we do as a society to stop anyone from dying from corona?

with the selfish, dim-witted thinking on display here recently sometimes it feels like death would be a merciful release, that's for sure.

Exactly what we are doing op. Controlling the spread, protecting the vulnerable, researching treatments and vaccines

@Lweji That’s a good point. I had a very long bad case of pneumonia as a child. I still suffer from the effects now.

It's just so much easier to ranting on a forum feeling superior doesn't it?

It seems to be working for you.

You are OK with children being murdered because most of them would have been murdered anyway.

That's cool.

Weird that you presume I don't do anything about that when I'm not prevented by the lockdown that you support.

I think there are quite a lot of useful
strategies already outlined on the thread

Not lifting lockdown until test/track/trace is actually up and running (rather than promised shortly) is (arguably) the single most important one

As is continuing to lift restrictions in considered phases, with chance to see what happens to transmissions each time (and deal with it) before just loosening everything

@Zandathepanda OP if you follow your argument through, there would be no preventative care. No cancer treatment. No NHS

There has never been such extreme prevention for any other disease. No other prevention has led to the collapse of some industries.

Imagine if we put this much money and effort into finding cures for cancer, diabetes, heart disease and other diseases. Billions and billions of pounds.

We could buy ourselves time to develop a vaccine or treatments perhaps?

And we are. A few months ago ventilation was king in the treatment of COVID, now the need for early intervention with oxygen is understood. A few months ago we thought that COVID was primary a disease of the lungs, now we know it attacks all of the body's organ systems and causes disorders of the blood. Now we know that dialysis and blood thinners can be used to treat the sick.

It's not a choice be lock down forever or cull the herd. There is a third way,it just requires a bit of patience and self sacrifice. Scary how may people cant manage either.

There is a third way,it just requires a bit of patience and self sacrifice. Scary how may people cant manage either

Well put

I think the logic is that the longer we delay the spread and the slower the virus spreads then fewer people will get infected between now and hopefully finding a vaccination.

sunshineanddaffodils We don't think it will "magically go away" because we're not uneducated and ignorant. We've examined all of the data available in the public domain, assessed the risks versus benefits, and decided that at this point, we prefer to remain in lockdown.

@iamapixie all true but even without the problem of the speed at which deaths are happening in the same short period, this virus is still making healthy people very sick for a number of weeks.

I think the asymptomatic rate is projected to be something like 45% and of the people who will likely recover 20% will need hospital therapies (oxygen mostly but also hydration, clotting prevention, antibiotics for secondary infections). Apply that to the working population for arguments sake and things very quickly go to shit when/if it hits a lot of people in a short timescale.

It’s very altruistic to talk of saving the elderly and the vulnerable but in truth the economy and society would be suffering just as much had we took a different path.

People are looking to blame something/someone but forgetting that people ‘just’ getting sick would come with its own problems not unlike the ones we have now. There is no escaping the consequences of covid lockdown or not. It’s the difference between a controlled fire and a rampaging inferno.

We can live relatively normally next to a bonfire but a volcano makes life impossible.

Also, if the R is kept under 1 for long enough the virus will die out. Surely that’s also preferable.

with the selfish, dim-witted thinking on display here recently sometimes it feels like death would be a merciful release, that's for sure

I've been trying to think about something about a virus that only kills bloody horrible or willfully stupid or selfish people that won't get me deleted.

It's up to the individual though. there will be those who can't/won't stay in and there are those who will shield for themselves or others in their family.
You do what's best for you.
For me, it's getting in my van as soon as I can and moving to my own little wilderness, was doing this anyway, just might be a bit more rural now.

sunshineanddaffodils you're wrong and could have found out for yourself by listening to the news, going online, reading mumsnet and probably asking friends.

Unless you've been in a coma it's amazing that you managed not to find out what the point of the lockdown was.

But hey you're not alone.

If there's no vaccine or treatment though, what else are you suggesting we do as a society to stop anyone from dying from corona?

Oh I don’t know, as one of the richest countries in the world, we could ensure there is sufficient money in households where someone is shielding? We could pour money into science to help find vaccines and treatments, we could ensure people over weight have support available to lose that weight - subsidised gym membership, access to a dietician, cooking lessons, we could ensure that people with conditions such as Type 1 diabetes have what they need to manage their conditions well....basically give people a fighting chance.

I have a child who is type 1 diabetic, he had somewhere beetween 5 and 15 years wiped off his life expectancy on diagnosis, he is 3 times more likely to die of COVID-19 than a non-diabetic....pretty shit life outcomes when compared with your peers. It is not inevitable, however, that he should live a shorter life so why not ensure he has everything he needs to live a long and healthy life? Or just say ‘fuck it, he’ll die anyway’, shrug and move on?

We all have a right to life. Sadly people like you, OP, think we don’t have an equal right to life. Why not just say ‘fuck the sick and disabled’, because that’s exactly what you mean. Stop hiding behind fate and inevitably. That people live shortened lives is not inevitable.

Treatment has already improved. Many people survive long stays on ICU. All the people who have recovered in hospital would have been unlikely to survive if there had not been a bed, ventilator or dr available. Yes, there are some who sadly wont survive. But plenty who get it badly will with the right care. That's why the spread has to be slowed

‘Don't twist what I'm saying. I'm not gleefully rubbing my hands together saying get on with dying.
If there's no vaccine or treatment though, what else are you suggesting we do as a society to stop anyone from dying from corona?’

Keep the vulnerable at home rather than putting them in the workplace.

Fucking stupid OP. Are you in favour of any medical intervention then? Would you want any emergency services to attend if you were in a car accident? You're going to die eventually so why not just get it over with, don't waste the tax payers time and money funding all of these pointless antiobiotics, surgerical treatments, vaccines and whatever other life preserving measures you've sucked up already.

These threads are getting stupider by the day