Surely everyone who was going to die from corona will do eventually

[sunshineanddaffodils]

Unless we all stay locked up at home forever or unless a vaccination or cure is discovered.

Not necessarily. Not every person in the country is going to get it. There’s not a disease on this planet where it’s statistically better to get it than to try to avoid it. Look at chicken pox. Only a few years ago people held chicken pox parties to force their children to catch it. And some children ended up with lifelong or fatal injuries, where if they were encouraged to avoid it then they may not have even caught it in their lifetime,

@PhoneLock that’s the most moronic statement I’ve ever heard

these kids are hardly immune themselves

They're immune in the sense that this disease poses them no significant risk.

And you know perfectly well that they are not attending school and are at far higher risk and that some have been murdered.

You just don't care.

But let's be absolute crystal clear, EVERYONE is picking their deaths here and ignoring the ones they don't think matter.

I think a disease that overwhelmingly affects the very old and poses no risk to children is not a reason to lock children up at home.

I think it is immoral to put that burden on children and cause the harms that we are causing to their development, mental health, and happiness when they have no say in the matter.

I don't think it is justified to continue lockdown now that there NHS has increased capacity and was not overwhelmed.

The self righteousness of lockdown enthusiasts who pretend their solution has no risks sickens me. At least be honest about who you are OK with hurting to get what you want.

You’re ignoring the fact that covid is working on a much faster timescale and the consequences reach much farther than just the death of an individual.

If all these people ‘who were going to die any way’ () had all caught covid during the time we’ve been locked down you’d be getting used to scenes of mass graves/cremations and headlines about problems dealing with bodies. With that comes huge public health implications that come with masses of bodies that can’t be dealt with properly. Pretty sure that wouldn’t be good for anyone’s mental health..

Whilst all of that was going on people who will survive the virus will be sick. They won’t be working and the services we rely on to maintain society would be extremely limited/suspended. People struggled with not having their garden waste picked up for a few weeks and the tips closed. Imagine that for all waste as well as no maintenance for plumbing and sewage.

People with cancer or other illnesses matter, of course they do (my loved ones are affected too and only time will tell how they’ll come out of this) but the above isn’t some scare mongering fantasy. The probability of that scenario is very high if this virus was left to run unchecked. It’d all be over much quicker but the aftermath would be horrendous frankly.

Disrupted and traumatised societies are volatile. We will see a fall out from this on many levels but it could of been (and could still get) so very much worse.

We will all die, might as well throw in the towel now.

Empathy with those loved one at risk and believing that when your number is up, it is up, are not mutually exclusive.

I have lost loved ones. It was their time.

PafLeChien

What a truly crass post, OP.

I'm someone who'll very likely die when I get this. Posts like yours read as if you'd like me to show up at some disposal station to be coughed on so I get on with dying ASAP and stop annoying you by holding up your return to your normal life.

FOTTFSOF.

Living with this fear and this restriction is hard enough without insensitive demands that I just woman up and get my dying over with for the sake of everyone else. And it's pointless you trying to dress it up as 'compassion for others' or oh the poor people dying while we don't force everyone out on the street to just wipe out the ones who are going to die ASAP because you can't really expect me to believe you care about some lives but not others.

To be clear I have supported lockdown and I support easing of restrictions with measures in place. I’m not overly confident in our governments capabilities but i have much more faith that the majority of society will make the changes needed to slow its spread.

PafLeChien

“so why do we even bother with hospitals and vaccination in the first place? Let nature take its course why don't we.”

No doubt people with this opinion turn down any medical assistance as a matter of principle, not even an aspirin

The WHO announced that their was 106,000 new cases worldwide yesterday. This is not going away.

I am someone who could easily have become 'collateral damage' had the lockdown not occured. I was admitted to A and E with a life threatening condition in April.. luckily once the doctors realised what it was it was easily sorted (2 days in ICU) but if those doctors or that bed had not been available..

The lockdown is not just about people who get ill with Covid.

Ooh, I have just had an amazing idea. Why don’t we save a load of public money by not prosecuting people for murder? After all, the victims were going to die anyway....

@sunshineanddaffodils

I take that you don't share my point of view? Your privilege.

Any illness that causes a premature death Is tragic but we accept it

No we don't. We try to prevent them or treat them. Fgs

‘I think a disease that overwhelmingly affects the very old’

And in considerable numbers the BAME community

Plus diabetics (both types)

I just don’t agree that a decent society should ever write off so many of its people

The number of the shielded (medical conditions, not age) exceed the population of NI. Obvs with some overlap, the number of those living with diabetes doubled that (population of Wales), start adding those living with asthma, the pregnant and the BAME community, and you are putting a fuckton of the population at risk.

Not all of them will die or have life changing complications. But you’ll wreck everything if that comparatively vulnerable population all caught it in an early wave - and wreck it much more comprehensively than via controlling number of cases at any one time by lockdown, that’s both lives and economy btw.

@ACautionaryTale
I’ve always believed that if your numbers up your numbers up. So I don’t believe people die too soon - it was their time. It’s sad for everyone left behind but it was their number time

Really? so don't bother? everything is predefined? so, whats the point in doing anything at all then?

I don’t believe people die too soon - it was their time. It’s sad for everyone left behind but it was their number time

I’m trying to understand this perspective. Do you believe that this applies to violent deaths? Accidental deaths? Childhood deaths? SIDS?

Btw I live near a plague village, abandoned when almost all the inhabitants died. That's what it's looked like in the past when a pandemic swept through and everyone susceptible died like flies. If you think that's a quicker, easier solution, imagine the number of orphans to deal with, the abandoned businesses, the empty houses, the services grinding completely to a halt and the kind of scenes Cornettoninja describes above. Your fantasy of life going straight back to what it was for you pre pandemic if we just did X is not a realistic one I'm afraid, there is no easy way back to that. I wish there was.

It's not true that it poses NO risk to children. Very few children die, but death is not the only adverse outcome. We still don't know the long term consequences of getting covid.

And full up hospitals and ICUs aren't able to treat other emergencies, therefore risking children's and their parents' lives.

Anyone who thinks it's ok to let children go to school while risking their teachers and parents lives must be on the side of mad.

“Plus diabetics (both types)”

One of my son’s 16 year old friends is type one diabetic, as is the 27 year old daughter of friends of ours. Diagnosed as young children. Full, meaningful lives. She is a doctor.

But meh, they’re going to die one day anyway.

Good grief, this thread is ugly.

@Michelleoftheresistance .

I don’t think people understand that the vulnerable population never goes away. People become part of that vulnerable category all the time and no one really knows when that might happen.

This situation won’t be forever but it’s been managed with very limited information right now. Tough choices have been made, I wouldn’t want to be the person who had to definitively decide whether the risks/benefits of running something like cancer services or dentistry were relatively safe right now.

Ultimately these decisions have been made with limited information with people’s safety in mind (staff and users). It’s shit and people will fall on the wrong side of the numbers at times but what else can be done?

OP, a test, trace, isolate system could help keep cases down until therapeutics or a vaccine is developed, though know vaccine not guaranteed.

Professor of Global Health, Devi Sridhar explains it well:

“If people stay home, daily new cases will drop & becomes feasible to suppress virus with test, trace, isolate, support. Stay in lockdown longer to ensure a package of public health measures can be implemented, virus can be contained & economic & social activity can then resume.”

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/12/tories-lockdown-social-distancing-testing-second-wave-coronavirus?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Like most, I don't fall into a high risk group although in my fifties higher than some. I'll take sensible precautions to avoid getting it or spreading it. But I won't act to avoid getting it at all costs. That's not feasible. There are multiple risk factors. For example me switching to drive to work from the train might decrease my risk from catching it but would increase my risk of injury getting to work.

OP if you follow your argument through, there would be no preventative care. No cancer treatment. No NHS.