At the garden centre....on home oxygen

[Clemmieandareallybigbunfight]

Went to buy plants. Lady in the queue looking frail and with husband carrying her home oxygen tank. Life is for living

I'm sure many would say she should stay at home but I applaud her.

I hope she has many happy visits to buy plants.

they owe the rest of society to at least keep themselves safe

No they don't. Them going to the garden centre, socially distancing like everyone else, has no impact on society whatsoever.

@NamesNamesSoManyNames

Again, this is not to save the vulnerable or elderly. It's to prevent the whole population getting sick at once and overwhelming the NHS

But it is the vulnerable and elderly that are the ones going to need hospital intervention.... it’s not the rest of the population....

But it is the vulnerable and elderly that are the ones going to need hospital intervention.... it’s not the rest of the population....

None of the healthcare professionals who have died were vulnerable or elderly. The hospitals are half empty. And if that woman was on oxygen, chances are she’ll need a hospital admission at some future point - and not because she’s contracted Covid.

Well with the attitude of a few posters on here it’s no wonder we can’t get the covid19 deaths down enough, and the uk has had more deaths than other European country, Plus 2nd highest per million. It’s no wonder when they think it’s ok for a woman with Breathing difficulties thinks it’s fine to swan around a garden centre in the middle of a pandemic. I hope you’re looking forward to the second Bigger wave in about 2/3 weeks when we need to go in to lockdown again.

@FoodologistGirl if theres a peak it's because of everyone in the hypothetical garden centre, not one vulnerable lady. And in case youd forgotten, this has been encouraged and sanctioned by the PM.

Saraclara no of course they don’t owe me anything they owe the rest of society to at least keep themselves safe and not swam around the garden centre in the middle of a pandemic.

We are shielding for ourselves and to prevent. We owe you nothing.

Such selfish posters on here think it’s ok to carry on as normal while others turn their lives upside down to help the vulnerable and not spread this virus, delivering food parcels and shopping for neighbours. With this kind of attitude we’re going to be in lockdown until next year. Just because the dozy PM says it’s ok to open the country up without getting the r number down they all think wayhay let’s go shopping for Essential plants. Remember he was all for heard immunity and now he’s getting it. (without a vaccine heard immunity doesn’t excist, it’s called genocide)

@FoodologistGirl she could be end of life, hence choosing not to shield. If I had say 3 months to live, I wouldn't be shielding

As it is, I am shielding as a healthy 35yo. I was happily living my life when bloods found a rare blood disorder. Yes I class myself as healthy because generally am, work FT and spent 10 years in the ambulance service. Nobody is turning their life upside down for me, I get food delivered as usual and WFH while I'm shielding

You can't judge anyone out and about because really you don't know if they are shielding or not. My dad isn't, as a fit and well 70yo. Elderly doesn't equal needing to shield, it's a very specific list

My Aunt is terminally ill. She has weeks left and we’ve been going round in shifts to see her for little parties. We know it’s dangerous - honestly we do but she is young early 50’s and as a family we made the decision to have what time we could in shifts. Today she went to a bits and bobs shop, we did get some judgmental looks but at the end of the day she will be gone very soon and she has to live what she has left x

Freedom and rights for the elderly! I say As others have said she may not have Covid at all. I know one very healthy lady in her 70s who feared going out not because of concerns for her own health but because she would be criticised for her age. It's a national disgrace that our health system has not protected care homes and we automatically put older people last in the line.

Just for the information I have patients with covid-19 living with symptomless other people and those other people go out whenever they want. So anyone with a serious illness if you think it's safe to go out now think again. I hardly think this is just happening in my town.
This weekend I had to go to the supermarket and it was like any other day precovid, nobody is wearing a mask, nobody is social distancing, it's like a big party out there.
This is not going to go away.

I hate the way people are putting a greater burden on the elderly and sick - why should they have to be responsible for not infecting other people

It's absolutely NOT about them affecting other people, it's about protecting them. Elderly and sick people are more likely to die from this, and those that have been exposed to it are dying from it in droves.

It baffles me that some people still don't understand it.

Wow! I can't get over the way people are making judgements about this poor lady whilst in effect knowing so little.

My mum was on oxygen for the last two years of her life. For her catching a cold would have been the end, but. She was very clear. She had two choices, get on with living with all the associated risks, or sit at home in a bubble and live that bit extra. She opted to get on with life. She was actually holidaying in France when she caught the fatal cold, and quietly asked her husband to take her home which he did. They caught a ferry, she went back home for a cuppa, then off to the (private), hospital where she died 8 hours later (she didn't want to die at home in case it upset the family).

None of us know what the story of the lady seen by the OP is, and none of us should be making judgements.

*It's absolutely NOT about them affecting other people, it's about protecting them. Elderly and sick people are more likely to die from this, and those that have been exposed to it are dying from it in droves.

It baffles me that some people still don't understand it*

Firstly it’s not about protecting elderly and vulnerable people, it’s about reducing and delaying spread of the virus. It baffles me that some people still don’t understand this after eight weeks of it being explained.

Secondly, even if it was about protecting those people, they have a free choice as to whether they accept that protection. They have every right to refuse it.

@MrsSpenserGregson the OP was applauding the woman being out. It’s another poster complaining about scenarios that will most likely happen.

@Hunnybears

” But it is the vulnerable and elderly that are the ones going to need hospital intervention.... it’s not the rest of the population....”

The elderly and extremely vulnerable are not the ones using the most time intensive and costly NHS resources which is intensive care. It isn’t 85 year old John who’s been in ITU on a ventilator for 6 weeks.

So agree with MrsSpenser Gregson. Also hate the way we are being told to 'save the NHS' from the very people who need the NHS. Yes, she may take up a much needed bed - needed by her. Have you considered that perhaps she should be in one now but we are saving the NHS so her treatment is on hold? Please let people get on with their lives. If you are at greater risk, take care of yourself but don't expect to dictate to everyone else.

Good point monstie

The reality is that we are not protecting the vuerable. We are throwing them.under the bus to keep the ICU beds empty for those we feel more "worthy"

If she has no quality of life and dies at home then at least that bed is still empty for that 40 something person that is worthy of life right?

Same with our disabled kids. Keep them off school, let the parent struggle. Let them all be miserable as they will never pay tax right?

Because that is the reality now.

@Alsohuman

None of the healthcare professionals who have died were vulnerable or elderly. The hospitals are half empty. And if that woman was on oxygen, chances are she’ll need a hospital admission at some future point - and not because she’s contracted Covid

I think that’s because the healthcare professionals will have been exposed to higher doeses of the virus day in day out, than the average person ever would. It overwhelms their body’s.

That was the reason seemingly otherwise healthy adults have died. Absolutely awful

@Haenow

The elderly and extremely vulnerable are not the ones using the most time intensive and costly NHS resources which is intensive care. It isn’t 85 year old John who’s been in ITU on a ventilator for 6 weeks

Im not really sure what you mean Haenow? ITU isn’t going to be full of healthy, fit 40 year olds though?....

Hunnybears, ICU will be filled with mainly over 18's, because they are the ones given intervention. If someone more elderly or ill comes along, they won't get a ICU bed. If they ate in a bed and someone younger comes along, they will be kicked out and it will be a case of survive or die on oxygen.

That was made quite clear at the start. Nursing staff have the right to not intervene or resuscitate unless they have PPE.

Why people think that the elderly ate suddenly the burden, i don't know. Other than the obese, we don't begrudge medical services, for addicts, for the young men who are pissed and fighting every weekend, or the ones causing the majority of car accidents. Nearly all of the breaches of lick down and spitting/coughing at others, have been young men.

There's been a very clever job done so we ate immune to the amount of older people we've sacrificed.

**The reality is that we are not protecting the vuerable. We are throwing them.under the bus to keep the ICU beds empty for those we feel more "worthy"

If she has no quality of life and dies at home then at least that bed is still empty for that 40 something person that is worthy of life right?

Same with our disabled kids. Keep them off school, let the parent struggle. Let them all be miserable as they will never pay tax right?

Because that is the reality now**

I don’t think that’s the case. I don’t think they are being thrown under a bus at all. I think the fact that all of our lives (healthy, old, young, disabled-everyone) have been turned upside down in the last few weeks is testament to this. People losing their jobs etc but still sticking with the lockdown because ultimately we don’t want people to die unnecessarily.

There’s not one person been in my house or garden other than my DC and DH and I’ve not been to anyone else’s house/garden.

I would love to see my friends and family but I’ve stuck to the rules to help protect the elderly and vulnerable. It’s not for my protection- as a woman in her thirties, a BMI of 20, never smoked, doesn’t have asthma or breathing difficulties, never had a chest infection, no underlying health conditions. It’s very unlikely I’d need any sort of medical intervention.

So believe me when I say, I stay home not because I’m worried about catching (I think I’ll be fine) but to help slow down the spread.

So if all the vulnerable caught it at the sane time then of course many of them wouldn’t make it. So we needed to slow it down so they all don’t need the help at the same time.

Average jo will be fine

Other than the obese, we don't begrudge medical services, for addicts, for the young men who are pissed and fighting every weekend, or the ones causing the majority of car accidents.

Exactly. The NHS is for all. Not everyone except the elderly, or everyone except people who have a pre-existing condition (we're not a US health insurance company).

That agism has suddenly become okay, horrifies me. It's one of the nastier things that has come out of this pandemic. And I'm worried that it will be left behind when the virus is gone.

The week lockdown began, my parents were on a Warner holiday along with a large number of other guests aged 80+. Several of them were in wheelchairs with oxygen tanks - and some of them were not happy at all at being made to leave the hotel as it was having to close down! The dangers had been known for weeks by then and it was a big topic of conversation - so they weren't ignorant of the risks.