"lips must turn blue before an ambulance will come out"

[lljkk]

I've heard that claim a few times, about probable cv19 cases not being allowed to go to hospital.

Is it true or just hyperbole? I think it might be a gross exaggeration. Does anyone have a link to a real named person or even an NHS staff person saying this has happened?

I'm happy to see a SAD face in tabloids where someone is willing to not anonymously say it happened to themself or their loved one or their patient. I can't even find a tabloid story like that, though.

Thank you @Goatymcgoaty

It was a very traumatic time for both me and my husband. Rational objective hindsight in the cold light of day isn't the same when you're in the actual situation.

But why should we have to make these horrible decisions if the hospitals have provision for patients?

@SuspensionWithoutSuspense because the ambulance service can't cope. And the UK are treating people too late. Are you better now?

It's really worrying that people wouldn't go into hospital just because the kids are in bed. Patients are presenting that aren't short of breath so much, they're still feeling quite ok - but are actually critically ill and severely low on oxygen.

But why should we have to make these horrible decisions if the hospitals have provision for patients?

Because the ambulance service didn't have provision? No one was telling you not to go to hospital, they were telling you to go to hospital and giving you an option to go there which you didn't take.

@Complexico I couldn't walk or even give my address... he was scared of leaving me at the hospital entrance alone.

And he was worried about exposing our dc to the virus.

Again, it's hard to make balanced decisions when you're scared, worried and sleep deprived, like my DH was. It was horrible for him. The news at the time was saying don't go to hospital with Covid, basically. He didn't know what to do. I'm not sure I would have either.

I know i have said this before but there appears to be be and have been ´many more people admitted into hosptial in France, and the death rate is much lower. This has been worrying me for sometime.

I’ve said in previous threads that 111 is not fit for purpose

In the uk, we put non medical qualified call centre staff in front of screens with a piece of decision tree software, and expect them to make the right call on whether the patient on the end of the line needs life saving oxygen. That’s beyond crazy.

I wonder if other European countries have this shambles “to protect the nhs”. I really feel for the 111 call handlers too, being expected to get it right. Madness.

"he was scared of leaving me at the hospital entrance alone.

And he was worried about exposing our dc to the virus."

Understandable to be scared. Children being exposed isn't really much of an issue. Leaving you at the hospital isn't nice but that's what has to be done to save your life. You might have irreparable damage.

Upthread you casually said you couldn't go because the DC were asleep/couldn't be dragged out and asked if DH was just meant to leave you at hospital, as if that was an absurd thought. Yes. That's exactly what he's meant to do. He can't go in with you

Other people reading this could think that DC in bed means they should suffer for longer at home when it's crucial they receive early treatment.

I would not call 111. It is just a barrier to care.

@Humphriescushion use an oximeter. Early treatment appears to be key.

I couldn't walk or even give my address... he was scared of leaving me at the hospital entrance alone

Can’t believe some of the replies @Suspensionwithoutsuspense is getting. Perhaps your husband should have tied a luggage label on you with your details, so the porter who picks you up can trace who you are. I mean, what were you thinking, calling 111 and expecting to be triaged appropriately .

Nothing like a good old race to the bottom for our beloved nhs.

@SuspensionWithoutSuspense

Oh stop making excuses.

Someone could have got you a wheel chair there (hospital entrances are not quiet places), your husband could have written down your medical information for you.

You've come in here claiming you didn't get given care - it's because you chose not to have it, not because it wasn't offered to you as an option. That was your choice.

Do get better soon.

@Goatymcgoaty Well yes, he could have written her medical information down.

Slamming NHS for not offering care when they did is wrong in the circumstance - trying to blame it on hospital capacity when she was told to go to hospital was wrong.

I am sorry she's unwell, but people really need to take responsibility for getting themselves treatment rather than telling the world it is not available when it has actually been offered.

@IfNotNowThenWhenever

If you’re not low on oxygen, you don’t need oxygen so it wouldn’t help. In fact, giving oxygen to someone with normal sats (and normal blood gases) - even if they feel very breathless - can be dangerous.

@Schuyler that's perfectly true. What I would like to know though is why so many of us are gasping for breath/feeling as though we cant breath when our oxygen sats are fine? It would be immensely reassuring if someone would just explain what is happening (and hopefully why its nothing to worry about).

Interesting question. I don’t know enough to be able to answer that but perhaps someone else on this thread can?

I do think medics and call handlers would be wise to ensure they appropriately reassure people if they’re clinically well enough to be at home. Anxiety is understandable but most people accept reassurance, as long as it’s provided!

I’m glad they’ve revised 111 so the triage is not so severe.

Ambulances can be an issue based on location. They were cleaning between each suspected CV19 case which slows them down.

Hospitals not so bad sometimes so it makes sense to bypass back log and get there if someone can take you. Ask for right zone and then take person in.

I also bought an oximeter, with good reviews, hopefully ok. Felt ott at the time but now, reading that NYC report, not.

Some Samsung phones have an oximeter on them. I have an S10 and it has one.

Anyone got a share token for the Times article?

I ordered a well-reviewed pulse oximeter from Amazon on Friday (£25) with a delivery date in May - arrived today!

No but the NY times one explains it better

www.nytimes.com/2020/04/20/opinion/coronavirus-testing-pneumonia.html

If you’re not low on oxygen, you don’t need oxygen so it wouldn’t help. I know, but I find it hard to believe that oxygen levels are bring checked in lots of cases. There is such a culture of "how dare you call an ambulance/make a doctor's appointment/ expect a doctor to see you at all" that proper checks and proper care is just not happening.

Is it true or just hyperbole? I think it might be a gross exaggeration. Does anyone have a link to a real named person or even an NHS staff person saying this has happened?

I saw some posts on a MN topic about a week ago or so ago

It was on an unrelated topic, a large one with many comments and the ambulance comments were slightly off topic.

A poster mentioned that they had been so out of breath and struggling to breathe that the son had phoned for an ambulance and been told -the poster could hear the conversation- that they would not be sending an ambulance because the person's lips were not blue. But what was even more shocking was that other posters then mentioned having a similar experience.

The comments did come across as being genuine, especially because the first comment about it was kind of said in passing and then others joined in the way posters usually do. It didn't seem contrived

@IfNotNowThenWhenever

I find it very hard to believe an A&E medic and/or a paramedic hasn’t done basic obs on 99% of patients which includes oxygen sats. There may be the odd case where key things get missed and clearly this is unacceptable. That said, I don’t find it hard to believe that NHS 111 are often crap because we are humans and they follow a script - it doesn’t work.

GoatyMcGoaty nothing like a race to the bottom, indeed. How do you conclude that me suggesting that it was possible for her DH to get her to hospital mean that I think it the ideal way?! Clearly it wasn't! But well, in the situation you are given, you do what you can to save your life. 'I didn't want to wake the kids' or 'what happens when I get to A&E' are certainly worries, but set against the possibility of dying of covid they don't balance up very well. I agree that in stressful situations, many people lose their capacity for rational thinking. But afterwards the best thing to do is think ok what could I do differently next time, not post-rationalise. I have certainly learnt the hard way that you have to be assertive and creative in dealing with the NHS. Passivity may cost you your life. It shouldn't be like that, but it is.