Posters who want lockdown lifted

[DianaT1969]

I'm seeing an increase in threads where the poster is impatient for exact details of an exit strategy (even though we can all imagine what it will involve - phased re-opening of some stores and businesses etc,,). Plus we're hearing the usual cries of lockdown is hurting society more than it's helping.
Spain saw a spike in new infections today - the highest since their peak 3 weeks ago. To these posters I'd like to ask what your thread titles will be during our spikes in infections and deaths after this lockdown?
What I'm really getting at is that you don't seem to understand that we're in this for the long haul. There is no quick fix, back to normal.

It seems to me that the government should take stock right now, rather than wait another two weeks for a review.

People are doing their own thing.

Far better for the government to ease something, give advice, minimise the risk of people taking matters into their own hands.

FWIW I hover between dove and hawk. I want things eased, my kids are suffering. However, my DH works in intensive care and having spoken to him last night and heard how horrible and random the disease is, I’m not sure how I feel.

We acknowledged he’s got a skewed perspective

It's a numbers game at the moment but it's a shame that the government can't do a poll as to who wants restrictions-lifted now and who doesn't. Who wants to chance it and who would rather stay like this. I bet more people would rather take a risk than not and decide for themselves if they would rather see family than not.

As it is, people are already doing what they want. I'm hearing of people having visitors and bbq's and some shops reopening up and more cars on the roads and the daily mail are pushing it with the daily ' we're going back to work ' headlines. It's making people restless. If Joe blogg is visiting his kids then why can't I see my dad in a care home? That's how people will think wrongly or rightly.

We won't/can't always have social distancing until a vaccine.
There may not be one

Lockdown was sold to us as an initial measure to delay the pandemic's arrival so the NHS could prepare, to control the flow of cases, and with a lockdown > relax > re-lockdown model turning the tap flow of cases on and off until a vaccine was found. That was fine, that was logical, that was comprehensible and was relatively short-term periods of real shit in among a long slog of shit to get this bloody virus treatable.

What lockdown is now being changed into is some kind of "we will not release you in case there's a second peak" and some on MN seem to be getting bloody excited by the idea of locking everyone up in their houses, forced to clap at 8pm on the clock and unable to buy shoes for their kids as that's a "non-essential purchase" for years until a vaccine is reached.

It was never intended like that - there will always be a re-peak effect when it's released, the intention with doing it this way was to keep the peaks as smaller dollops rather than a real peak so the NHS wasn't overwhelmed. The acceptance was there that a vaccine was not going to be a quick fix (and lots of the lockdown lunatics on here are also the "my kids won't be getting vaccinated" as well) - and it was balancing the long slog with the acceptance that you can't lock the nation up for years on end - and lock the scientists up in their labs without letting either side out until things are "fixed"

However on the hive of utter moronity and bullying that is MN these days - you just get screamed at for wanting lockdown lifted as if you're literally killing old ladies or one random poster's child. Sorry but no - that's not how it was when we went into lockdown and there is a limit as to what people's mental health, people's physical health, the economy and children's futures will take. It was always going to be balancing it out.

If you're having a lovely lockdown in your rural house that you don't want anyone to ever walk past, with good wifi, computers for every child and a school obligingly doing 9-3 onlineschooling and are enjoying yourself - fine - stay locked the fuck down forever - I don't care... but stop bullying anyone who dares have a different opinion to you and find some other bloody way to get your kicks than having the police and curtain twitchers social media group on speed-dial if Doris down the road goes out to Asda more than once in a week or doesn't clap fast enough on a Thursday for the 2 minutes enforced gratitude.

I have faith in a vaccine. I'm usually the most pessimistic person going , but I think that something will be found but it will take a while. That's the problem ; no quick fix.

It cannot go on for ever.

It's a balance between keeping the vulnerable safe and allowing the slow spread of the virus through the healthy.

We have already seen that kids are not the super spreaders originally thought of and the vast majority have very mild symptoms. Indeed, even small babies have successfully come through it. People under 30 in the main seem to shrug it off or have mild symptoms.

We do need to allow hospitals to carry out other surgery since people are dying and will continue to die of preventable diseases whilst we lockdown....so again it cannot go on forever.

The economy cannot survive a long drawn out lockdown.

Finally, if we all lockdown and then come out in months - the minute someone brings it in from another country/other source etc etc we return to lockdown again! Impossible so a balance is the best way IMO

If you have any understanding of what happened in the foot and mouth crisis 19 years ago, when farmers suffered the most horrendous times because of mathematical modelling, then you'll perhaps begin to near understand why people are calling for the country to move again.

Personally, I think Ferguson's career will be over as the data becomes more clear, although this may well be wishful thinking.

The other way the government can play it is no exit plan, just trickle people back to normal, slightly loosening the rules each week to keep the panic to a minimum, the only problem they have is schools, how they address this is difficult, maybe bring certain years back first and drop feed the schools back to normal.

Absofuckinglutely!

The NHS doesn't appear to be overwhelmed thankfully or at least in the majority of the country. Our area there are few cases and lots of empty beds - again good BUT meanwhile no operations/checks for cancer etc etc

So some restrictions have to be eased with social distancing and hygiene being taking seriously. Perhaps masks to prevent people coughing over each other...as well?

That was to Domina.

@Ihopeyourcakeisshit most people don't seem to understand this. They have identified 33 mutations so far. And even if we do find a vaccine we could be hit by a novel virus at any time. That's not even considering bacteria and antibiotic resistance.

I don't see how they can give us exact details though. It's a moving target.

"ThinkAboutItTomorrow Fri 24-Apr-20 13:54:19
The point of lockdown was to buy time to create capacity in the NHS. It wasn't to stop people catching it. As long as there is capacity in the hospitals to properly treat the 5% who catch it and need treatment we should be good to reopen slowly.
Maybe those who are more at risk should stay at home but everyone else should be able to start returning to normal.
Ideally there is an effective contract tracing strategy to enable people to isolate quickly if they have come into contact with someone with Covid. Maybe localised lockdowns from time to time.
Pretty soon more people will die because of lockdown (eg not seeking treatment or screening etc) than saved by it.
Not to mention the economic cost and the negative impact that will have on health."

THIS - you said it so much better than I did

They have identified 33 mutations so far. And even if we do find a vaccine we could be hit by a novel virus at any time.

Yep - viruses mutate - that's a fact of life. Fortunately - if they get TOO deadly they become really crap viruses as they kill off their hosts and don't get a chance to replicate.

We were always going to have to work out a way of co-existing with this via a combination of working out treatments, vaccines and sorting out the mess the NHS had got into - lockdown was just a way to stall to get ducks organised into rows with surgical masks on.

I am not entirely happy with the paper set out for Scotland in easing restrictions from what I read I couldn’t see what their strategy was? The usual stuff about social distancing going on for the rest of the year and no return to normal in that time either. I did notice it said Christmas isn’t cancelled but won’t be like Christmas as we know it, so what? No visiting family over the holiday period? No celebrating with friends? Staff nights out? All sounds utterly depressing to me. And then to hear rumours this morning that’s salons could be shut for 6 months! Not sure how their business will survive that long and can’t see the government having the money to support it for the amount of time?!

Also I’m interested to see how they can balance lockdowns? Surely going in and out of lockdown will cause further damage to the economy with the uncertainty of it? And will the government pay furlough every time? Doubt it

Pretty soon more people will die because of lockdown (eg not seeking treatment or screening etc) than saved by it

People are not only dying of covid because to save the nhs they are not granted entry to a hospital until its probably to late to save them despite the capacity to treat them being present. 4000 beds lying empty at the nightingale. I believe deaths because of not being able to access any other form of treatment are already climbing.

Makes you wonder why we are even doing it when even with space they wont treat you.

We're coming out of lockdown by stealth.

( ive been over to the guardian comments pages as I needed a laugh , the comments on there are very witty and I knew the Trump and using disinfectant story would be amusing)!
They say the same though ; more people about , more cars , builders starting up , some shops opening too.
Either the govt will turn a blind eye because this is what they want or ramp up lockdown a bit more. I feel it will be the former. They are trying to sort out the testing at the moment so while that's going on people are taking matters into their own hands.

The Gov has had a month to formulate a plan for ending lockdown but is still pissing in the wind - it's not acceptable and will cause people to rebel.

All great points here.

I'm also very mindful that this corona virus we are experiencing now is unlikely to be the last novel virus pandemic experienced by humanity. There is no way of knowing how far in the future the next one is. There may well be another in my lifetime.

So it's super important to find a pragmatic way of living and dealing with them.

Shield the elderly and the sick
Get Britain moving again and back to work
Get taxes paid and money moving again
Get children back to school; students back to university.
Otherwise more than another fortnight and the economy and life for millions of families will be shot to smithereens.

Honest question - all the lovely ladies and gents who have been serving in my Sainsburys for tje last few years are still serving and every week they tell me tjat despite servings 10s of people for 8 hiurs at a time, colleagues aren't getting it.

I really think there has to be some clear information about the actual risks of this disease. They are infinitesimal.

Also, like the common cold, it's a coronavirus. I don't think there will be a vaccine or a cure. There will be mechanisms to relieve symptoms.

I am very glad that people are now washing their hands after the toilet, before preparing food, when they come it, etc. I hope they keep doing it; I hope my GP keeps the extended on-line service, I hope my sainsbury's keeps the rules about one person per family going in to do the shop and keeping the aisles clear and antibaccing the trolley handles. I also hear that hospitals have ramped up their cleaning routines and infections are now better guarded against. Not sure why they should have had to

What domina said

Spain saw a spike in new infections today - the highest since their peak 3 weeks ago

This is misleading and the problem when reading a DM headline without bothering to read the full article.

The "spike" is due to the big increase in antibody testing. You can not take the number of antibody tests and add it to the number of new infections.

In fact and for the first time since the pandemic started the number of recoveries outstrip the new infections in Spain - 2796 new cases, 367 deaths and 3105 recoveries

elpais.com/sociedad/2020-04-24/los-fallecidos-diarios-por-coronavirus-en-espana-caen-a-367-el-nivel-mas-bajo-en-un-mes.html

TheCliterrati “ So it's super important to find a pragmatic way of living and dealing with them.”

This.

The lockdown should be extended well into the second half of next year.

Many covid-19 survivors have greatly diminished breathing capacity after contracting this virus (a reduction in the vicinity of 20-30%) and there is no evidence their lung health will be restored in time. Damage is also done to the heart and nervous system.

This is a virus that put 55-year-old Boris Johnson on death's door. You're not going beat this with a packet of butter menthols.

Your inability to abstain from mingling with others is your problem, whereas your spreading the virus around is everyone's problem.