Posters who want lockdown lifted

[DianaT1969]

I'm seeing an increase in threads where the poster is impatient for exact details of an exit strategy (even though we can all imagine what it will involve - phased re-opening of some stores and businesses etc,,). Plus we're hearing the usual cries of lockdown is hurting society more than it's helping.
Spain saw a spike in new infections today - the highest since their peak 3 weeks ago. To these posters I'd like to ask what your thread titles will be during our spikes in infections and deaths after this lockdown?
What I'm really getting at is that you don't seem to understand that we're in this for the long haul. There is no quick fix, back to normal.

We are not going back to normal any time soon but I am not prepared to wait a year to see my family again. Sorry.

Cantory it isn't that simple though, continuing lockdown in its current form is going to cause deaths, and irreprebable damage to many businesses etc. In an ideal world yes everyone could remain shut away for as long as it takes, but that's not reality. Ideally the government needs to implement something like track and trace (I know they have said they will, but actually do it) so that people can get back to work etc where possible. Just saying to a country that for an unspecified amount of time you aren't going to be able to do x, y or z isn't sustainable.

So how many deaths are acceptable to you? 100,000? quarter of a million? half a million? As many as it takes?

Yes, putting it bluntly. I don't consider half a million deaths too high to avoid millions having their lives wrecked. And don't bother bother replying with fatuous drivel about sacrificing people because others want to go to the beach or the pub. I'm sick of that kind of trivialising of the genuine concerns and fears of other people.

But many people who are dying have very common underlying conditions and are in the wider vulnerable group. One third of the population are estimated to be in the vulnerable group.

You really should stop posting such nonsense.

No one wants anyone to die.

But you cant keep 66 million people locked up in their homes indefinitely waiting for something that may never happen like a vaccine or cure.

Do you honestly think this will just go away?

We haven't cured the cold yet .

So how many deaths are acceptable to you? 100,000? quarter of a million? half a million? As many as it takes?

In the UK? There is zero possibility of covid19 killing half a million people during the course of this pandemic.

@BamboozledandBefuddled Well thanks for being honest that half a million extra people dying is acceptable to you in return for lifting lock down.

@margina;gain That is the figure I have seen. I have no idea as I said if it is accurate. If you are sure it is wrong what proportion of the population meets the original vulnerable criteria?

600,000 die every year in the UK, without coronvirus, millions will die worldwide from starvation because of lockdown, people die, it’s of fact of life, it’s a fine line, lockdown can’t be forever, people will die either way.

@Alex50 This is quarter of a million deaths extra. I am well aware we all die eventually.
And I am not talking worldwide, other countries have to make their own decisions, I am talking about Britain.

Or even half a million deaths extra.

@Cantory You're welcome. Maybe it would be nice if some of those who want lockdown to continue indefinitely were also honest. They're clearly happy to throw millions under the bus to protect themselves and their loved ones but you won't find them willing to say so openly.

@cantory My routine mammogram has been suspended. It is there to help save my life in the event it detects early breast cancer, which runs in my family. If I die because it wasn't detected early enough due to the prolonged suspension of routine preventative measures, is my death more acceptable than your friend's son?

How do you know? Some of these deaths may have an overlap? There were also extra people dying who don’t have Corona last month because they were to scared to go to hospital as didn’t want to overwhelm the NHS, A&E around the county-are earily quiet, cancer treatment being delayed, deaths are happening not just because of coronvirus.

6000 extra deaths last month, nearly a 3rd wasn’t because of coronvirus.

But lockdown is living by -loads of people are making their own decisions about what is safe /it is definitely easing de facto of not de jure.

I never know why some expect people to be surprised that other people die of other things? Yes an average level of deaths in the UK is 600,000. Because we all do die eventually.
We should always be working to end premature death.

The prediction was an extra half a million deaths, so an extra half a million people who would not have died.

And medics have been sent to cover covid 19 wards as they are in some areas overwhelmed with patients. Ending lock down would not achieve that. If there are not enough medics to do a mammogram, that will be the same without lock down, in fact it would be more likely.

@BamboozledandBefuddled No I don't think the same as you at all. I have come to realise on MN that there are a lot of people who do just put themselves and their families first in everything they do including who they vote for. I don't. I was brought up with a strong faith and the idea you help others. But I know many do not feel the same.
So if I was putting my family first I would argue for lock down to end now. Because that would be the best option for me, DP and my DCs, and my elderly parents could continue to self isolate with support from us.

I agree with Blunt. I do wonder if we have just gone too far. The NHS can seemingly cope mainly because they have cancelled almost everything else. There will be deaths associated with this decision. If very few of us have had CV then locking ourselves away for months/years on end will not work.

There seems to be a group of people who are vunerable, they could catch it/they could not. If they catch it they could recover or they could pass on but I think stating that a 103 year old person has DIED of CV is odd. Really? I guess what we dont know is whether they were going to die anyway. By having CV in their system when they are tested is it right that the death will be attributed to CV19? If that is happening then that is misleading. 41% down on attendance at A&E. Where are those people going?

Sadly people die all the time, we dont stay in all over winter in case we catch flu etc.

Of course those who are stating that the lockdown should continue. You can of course carry on like this but I am not sure the younger people for instance have the same risk. There is of course a risk in lots of things we do. Extreme sports etc. It doesnt mean we never do them. We just assess the risk.

I hope we dont start the 'if it saves one person, its worth locking down the whole country'. Some just do not realise that if we dont open up some of economy in the next few weeks there will be no services, no NHS, no benefits. There is going to be a massive recession.

For those who feel at risk (and I do include the worried well). You can stay in, you can shield, you can get online shopping for the next 1-2 years but realistically others are not going to do this. I was out today and I really felt there were considerably more people around than last week.

I'm living off my savings - that won't last forever. I'll have no option but to start venturing out because no one else is going to feed my kids and pay my mortgage.

Nobody is arguing if we could save 1 person... We would not have went into lock down if it saved even a 1000 people. We went into lock down to stop half a million extra people dying.

@jem Are you not entitled to benefits?

The issue I see with 'lifting lockdown' is that it gives unscrupulous employers the right to demand that all their staff come back to work when that may put some staff at risk
I am vulnerable as I'm immunosuppressed, however I'm not on the official shielding list as they have changed my current treatments to slightly reduce that risk for me. I have been told to social distance and not to work with others and not to go out if I can help it by my drs but I didn't get a letter. If lockdown is lifted without some caveats and other systems in place, people like me would understandably need to remain working from home/on sickleave but employers are unlikely to support this unless they are forced to. Would they have to take my word for it that I'm vulnerable because I'm not on any lists at the moment. By the way my condition is generally invisible and I'm 41 so not exactly someone most would judge to be 'vulnerable'
I get the feeling and from watching other countries this is going to have to be a controlled and gradual easing of restrictions after a period of working out how to reduce the impact in general situations. The problem is, is our government is struggling to plan this and they aren't a strong a coherent voice on this, their usual policy of bowing to the pressure of whoever shouts loudest doesn't work very well in this situation so they are finding their feet whilst trying to solve extremely complex issues which was always going to be tricky.
Overcrowding schools & public transport systems for years is coming back to bite them on the bum.

I think for some people there's been a fundamental misunderstanding of the purpose of lockdown. I think a lot of people thought if we stay in our homes long enough it would be sufficient enough to eradicate the virus. This was never the point. The point was to buy the nhs time to prepare. When the nhs is ready certain freedoms will be given back and then removed again if it looks like it's being overwhelmed.

@MarieG10

That’s a fair point, however if Coronavirus cases go up even further, I imagine resources will still be diverted away from cancer patients.

Of course employers will force people back to work. And many will not allow people to continue working from home where they can unless the government says this has to happen.
This won't affect the well off of course.

Wonky legs, I feel for you. It's a terrible situation and today all I've seen on line and on Twitter is people back out and about and lifting it all on their own! Businesses won't be backwards in coming forwards about opening up if there is a glimmer of hope of getting back to 'normal. ' people are becoming sceptical about this whole thing.
I hope your employer is sympathetic but employers are ruthless as I'm sure your well aware. It's a no win situation for so many people.