Attitudes changing?

[CathyandHeathcliff]

Has anybody noticed attitudes changing over the past few days?

It seems to have gone from Facebook comments on articles calling for a stricter lockdown and so on, to calling for lockdown to be lifted sooner rather than later, comments about the economy failing and weighing up the balance.

I live in a very mixed area - HA, privately rented and owned - there’s a complete mix of attitudes around here - most of us compliant and reasonable - my young (and lovely) neighbours have progressed from quiet bbq with dodgy neighbours across the way (we’re all HA) to having loads of different people round in their garden this week. The Polish lady opposite me (HA) sits in her front garden chatting to passersby she knows at distance, neighbour in her 60s (PO) going out twice now with her Shitzu and the couple above (PO) definitely regularly visit family members, guy on the right (PR) sits outside and has a chat at distance - but, there’s more cars about and less keen social distancing - the supermarkets are a shit show and the Police have been patrolling today.

We need gradual relaxation of measures in harmony with economic betterment, mental health and my bloody hair needs a dye and a cut and the kiddies need the structure of some school time again and to touch bass with their mates.

Namechangergamechanging Agree. Who will pay for the NHS if the economy crashes. I share your concerns about children (and adults) dying. Heaven help those needing medical care or other support if we end lockdown prematurely. If ever there was a reason for avoiding a second wave it's that.

Why are people saying there's no way out? People talk of other countries. So let's follow their lead. Germany would be a good one. Let's get those (accurate) tests and start mass testing. Let's get our healthcare staff and other frontline workers PPE, let's get masks for the public, let's bring Covid patients in to hospital earlier when there's more chance of survival, let's ensure the hospitals have enough staff to care for patients, let's provide medical treatment in care homes.

In the meantime to alleviate financial worries and to help keep the economy going, let's divert the billions earmarked for HS2 to a Covid relief fund. HS2 will be using obselete technology to cut twenty minutes off the commute for a few wealthy executives. Hardly a priority. Perhaps the super rich, starting with daily mail owner Lord Rothermere, might like to contribute to the Covid fund. That would make a fantastic mail headline.

Toffee but what do the silent majority want?

I have been really shocked by the silent majority twice. Once in 2016 and then in the GE last year.

I don't read the newspapers except maybe the guardian and tend to look at Sky News.

The odd time I have looked at the Daily Mail they have been shaming people for walking in the park. Or shopping in the range.

I tend to form my opinions on a number of things.

I actually don't think I am that far apart from you. I want lockdown to be released when we are testing and contact tracing. I just think that should be sooner rather than later. Maybe not in 3 weeks but definitely by the end of May. I do have concerns due about the competency of lack of it of our govt. But sadly they have a massive majority so nothing can be done.

Fliesandpies Your area, South Devon, won't have capacity to take second wave patients if lockdown ends prematurely. Why do you think your area has low number of cases? Because of lockdown. You won't even have enough staff for local

The reason my area has a low number of cases is because we have a low number of cases! This is a 'quiet' (deprived) area at the far end of the country, largely white British. Why are other areas still so highly affected if lockdown is the key?

Our local hospital has stated that they are very quiet and have capacity to treat more patients, that they were braced for a storm which has not come so far. They have cancelled all non-covid work - which has had a very negative effect on my family - so they are certainly in a position to take more patients if required. This is what we were told lockdown was for as per the slogan: Protect the NHS.

I have always said 1st June , I really think things should start to be going back to normal that will be 13 weeks in lockdown, I really think people will not want to stay at home much longer then that. B&Q opened today there was lines of people in the q waiting to get in!!

Saying that I live in a city that does not have many cases, and two test centres, and I still know one person who has had it. So I already see people having people round for bbq’s and sitting in the park. The weather has been amazing this week and people feel more relaxed.

I’m also worried that people who should be going to the doctors or hospital with other things like cancer are not getting their treatments.

Smile That explains a lot. If you're in the South West, which has a low number of cases, presumably some people who aren't very bright have let themselves be lured into a false sense of security. They don't seem to understand that the only reason cases are low there is because of lockdown. I would say on their heads be it except that's very unfair on their fellow residents who do realise the risks and shouldn't suffer because of the selfish actions of others.

Having said that, I can see the reasoning for considering a regional easing of lockdown. When we're ready. It might make sense for the safer areas to be the first to start easing it. I'm not sure how popular that would be where you live? Do you think people would be up for it?

As for D notices. If they're in place. It doesn't stop the media planting subtle messages of manipulation. "Britain back to work"? There's no official ending of lockdown. As seen in this thread, people think others are ignoring it and some take the if you can't beat 'em approach.

In any event by all accounts the government is split. Apparently Boris and Matt Hancock can see the bigger picture (perhaps have better morals too) and are heeding the more haste less speed advice. Right-wingers (probably the rumoured eugenics enthusiasts) are like little children who don't understand why sometimes it's better to wait for something. They're so desperate to return to making lots of money (for themselves and their cronies, to be squirrelled away in tax havens) they fail to see they too will lose out (financially).

The economic damage will be devastating in a second wave but they have their heads the sand. Round two. Exactly what got us into this mess, having one of the highest death rates in the world. You'd think and hope they'd have learnt from the mistakes made several months ago.

Toffee on the first page, You say “We already have around 41,000 deaths. Higher than most other countries. Perhaps some people want us to top the world death rate table?”

I’m now confused about where you are, I thought it was UK?

Toffee
I need to Here Johnson speak as I don’t think he has more morals than other politicians quite the opposite
. He is hiding in my opinion. If he can speak to Trump then he could address the nation.

Hear

I know 3 people who have had it, aged between mid 30s and late 80s. None have had to be admitted to hospital. All recovered. I find that encouraging as what we see in the media is obviously a focus on the seriously ill.

@SarahInAccounts

Damaging to thousands of people. People who arent getting treatment, people who arent exercising, who should be, people with mental health issues, people in general. Lockdown is not an ideal scenario longterm. Surely you can see that

But they aren't dying, are they? Of course it isn't ideal but it's better than an even bigger death rate

While I sympathise with your situation unfortunately I don't know you or children any more than I know the children at high risk of dying of malaria in Africa.

I'm very unsure how it is "selfish" of me to not want to sacrifice anymore of my life for your children, but it's not "selfish" of pretty much every person in the UK to sacrifice any part of their life for those African children.

When I see a gofundme for a friend of a relative's child needing cancer treatment or whatever, I'll maybe throw them a tenner. I'll donate. I don't donate 20% of my wages. I don't stop paying my mortgage. I don't drastically change my life for people I don't know.

I think you have an incredibly blinkered view of this situation, and of the world in general, if you can't see that selfishness is ingrained in human nature.

I think the deaths are very sad. I think all deaths are sad, actually. But death is a part of life. It's a shame your family is disproportionately at risk from this particular virus, but the next one could disproportionately affect me. Or healthy 8 year old girls. If that ever happened I'd lock myself and my daughter up and pray that the unaffected people continued to work, pay taxes, fund the nhs, and help me to shield. That would be selfish of me, and being selfish is okay. It's not a dirty word, it's just being human 🤷🏻‍♀️

The absolutely worse thing for me, is thr inability to plan or know of a plan from the government. Appreciating that they don't want to commit to one, I do think it makes eveyine more anxious.

I want to know whether the schools will reopen in June or September, when we will be allowed to see out families, etc..

There's very little I can do about posters who (intentionally or not) misinterpret what I post. I don't want to bore others by repeating myself again and again. I never said I thought you or your city wasn't bright. I've made it very clear a minority of idiots live everywhere. All regions, all cities, all walks of life. A minority.

You said some people are ignoring lockdown in your city. That suggests they're either not very bright (if they think Covid has gone away), or they're suicidal. Or why do you think they're doing it? I very possibly haven't thought of a reason. I always enjoy hearing what other people think - even if I disagree with them. Sometimes someone will explain something that makes me rethink my opinions. I look at all the papers. I like to have a broad balanced view and even when I don't agree with a viewpoint it's good to see what "the other side' thinks. Often the truth is somewhere in the middle. I asked if you wanted an earlier end to lockdown in your area (and others with lower numbers of Covid cases). Do you want that? It's worth considering.

Lilac I thought you knew I'm in the UK. I know you've said on other threads you don't care if you die from Covid. I'm really sorry you feel that way and wish you didn't. You must accept most people don't want to die (or lose a loved one) to it? Do you not want us to have a more sustainable easing of lockdown? Do you disagree that we should wait until we have mass testing, PPE, masks for the public? What is your view on the Bank of England governor's warning about the longer-term damage to the economy that early lockdown is likely to bring about?

I know it's very hard dealing with lockdown. I don't embrace it. It's unfortunately the lesser of two evils for now but needn't be for very much longer. If the government pulls it's socks up and gets on with organising mass testing, sorting out PPE, masks, etc. The hope is they've learnt from the mistakes they made earlier on, including the herd immunity idea - morals aside, a spectacularly stupid plan given its looking like we might not get immunity after having it).

As for Boris. I'd say the same for any politician whatever my view of their politics or decisions. He was only very recently out of intensive care. You don't recover overnight. Making a phone call from.tge comfort of home (possibly in pyjamas) is hardly the same as a proper return to work. Whether he has morals or not I don't know. I said that's what I read. They he and Hancock want to avoid a second wave but others in government don't. Whether that's true or not I have no idea.

I just want my husband to have his urgent colonoscopy that was cancelled on 30th March. I know about all risks about being in hospitals etc but the fact that he’s still having lots of rectal bleeding and we have no answers terrifies me.

Like all others, I’m thinking primarily about my family. It’s how we are programmed to think. I don’t think we should end lockdown tomorrow, but I do think that we need to know when things like urgent screenings etc can start to be done again.

So many people are going to be affected by an extended lockdown. From cancer that’s missed to domestic abuse, child abuse and financial worries. There will also be a huge impact on mental health and other health worries that are being ignored or put off. We need to determine the balance needed between managing the spread and risks of covid along with the damage that lockdown is causing.

I wonder if the streets of Edinburgh and Glasgow are crowded with people running amok because Nicola Sturgeon has mentioned a plan to end lockdown and even invited citizens to enter the discussion.

The media is desperately looking for the next thing, so they've latched onto exit strategy.

We still need to know the full extent of the current measures as the timescales of this infection and previous lack of testing to indicate the scale of infection still leave unknowns.

It would be great to get back to normal. Lockdown is financially and mentally very damaging. But there is absolutely no point in relaxing restrictions and finding 3 weeks later that we're heading for a second peak that copies the first. Shutting society down again would be more damaging than the first round. Businesses need to manage staff and cashflow. The emotional toll of switching normal on and off. It's a long game and needs carefully considered phasing and management of changes.

There is no quick fix and it's a delicate balance of managing, Covid, the economy and the other aspects of health and life to do least harm.

To be fair to the government (and I'd say this whoever was in power) they can't know for sure when it comes to plans. We still don't know enough about the virus. It was initially hoped we'd all have immunity after catching it. Now research suggests that might not be the case. At this stage it's not possible to be anything other then flexible when it comes to planning. We need to come to terms with the fact that sometimes we can't always control everything. We can't always have definite plans. They should probably be honest about that.

What the government does need to get on with is organising mass testing and getting PPE and masks. That should be their immediate priority and it's a relatively achievable one. That brings us closer to returning gradually to a relative normal.

SnydeValley It's not practical to have 30-40% percent of the UK population shield. That's how many are at increased risk. With that many people potentially at risk it impacts on everyone. You must realise the NHS would stop running if everyone especially those at risk got ill or died (particularly bear in mind many at risk work for the NHS)? What do you think happens to the economy if we have unchecked Covid running through the UK? Even if people don't die, many mild cases are still knocked off their feet for weeks. Just because some lucky people have it extremely mildly don't assume that's the case for everyone. It's not selfish or unselfish. It's in everyone's interests to limit the risks.

Today's the first day I have noticed an uptick in traffic and people round here. It's really depressing. We will never get out of this lockdown if the figures don't add up. Maybe eventually they would have to ease it anyway, but with more cases so inevitable second lockdown with the huge economic damage of that, and the economic damage of a higher level of ongoing cases affecting workers and customer attitudes. Medical treatments for non covid conditions not resuming as much as they could have.

There is a slight chance that a minority who are slacking off may be able to coast by on the efforts of other people who are trying to protect livelihoods and lives. But how small is the minority? If it's too big then we are in serious trouble.

If the government said that on 7th May, you could have picnics in the park, people would react and think why not do it now and undermine progress made. This type of collective behaviour needs to be factored in to analysis and predictions.

Perhaps it makes sense for regional lockdown easing? Scotland's total population is less than 6 million. It's also, a few large cities excepted, more spread out. Very different to England especially some parts. Whether the majority of Scots want to be guinea pigs I don't know. Anyone from there here who has a view?

@Teaandbiscuits88 I'm sorry to hear about your husband. Clearly something's gone very wrong. That's something the government could and should be sorting out now. Urgent non Covid work is meant to be continuing, and in fact it is in some areas. If anything there's more capacity now than there will be when lockdown lifts. I hope he gets seen soon. Separately, non urgent but important work is the reason we need to avoid a second wave.

There are suggestions on practical help for abuse victims. Help that was needed before lockdown, when we had two murders a week, and will be needed after too (sadly I think abusers will be around a lot longer than Covid). Abuse is no reason to plunge the country into more long-term economic chaos than is necessary. Nor are financial worrires.

The billions going to the unnecessary HS2 could go instead to a Covid relief fund. Why not call on the government to do these things, and take the relatively easy measures to make lockdown easing safer, instead of pushing for something that would cause further damage and misery?

If the government said that on 7th May, you could have picnics in the park, people would react and think why not do it now and undermine progress made

I disagree. I think if people knew we could on 7th May, it would be more likely that they'd hold off until then. But if people have no idea and just think this could go on for God knows how long, they're more likely to think oh stuff it, I'm going to the park for a picnic.

Inkpaperstars Exactly what you say. And any second lockdown would be infinitely worse because we'd be confined to our homes just as we hit heatwave weather. I don't understand why people don't understand the more haste less speed principle. It's very basic common sense.