I can’t see an end to this.. 😔

[Mummypig2020]

God I’m really struggling the past few days.

I just want to see some light at the end of the tunnel. It just feels like constant negative news and nothing about the near future.

It makes me so sad. How are other countries starting to go “back to normal”? But we aren’t?

Do you want to just chuck serious covid cases direct into a morgue ? What positive suggestion do you have!

Yes that's exactly what she's suggesting! Line up nicely 2 m apart.

Or more likely anyone that doesn't have the emotional intelligence of a rock can recognise and accept the fact that it's not an either or situation. You can worry and empathise with non covid and covid people. You can worry and feel sorry for non covid and covid people.

Having covid doesn't make someone more "worthy" of care or to live.

You accept there will be collateral damage. You're just arguing who the collateral damage should be. You're passing the "death" buck to non covid people. Maybe because you or anyone you love is not at threat from non covid deaths, maybe it's because you see everything in black and white. Regardless, it doesn't make you right, it doesn't make you "better" and you definitely have no right to decide whose death is acceptable and whose isn't.

Shitgettingcrazy is completely right. All this rubbish about protecting the NHS and look how wonderfully it’s coped is because it’s chucked tons of people under a bus. It’s like some mass brainwashing has gone on where suddenly the only people that matter are the ones with the virus. The ones who’s mental health is suffering, whose businesses are being destroyed let alone the poor people not getting treatment are seemingly being given ignored. If you point this out some people just say don’t you care about people dying of Covid?’ It’s almost like a religion.

@Theluggage15, I completely agree. Apparently it's more important than anything else to save the lives of people with covid, at any cost, regardless of the thousands of lives that will be lost due to other illnesses, mental and physical, poverty and loss of livelihood.

The trouble is the gov will be crucified if they even dare to suggest that the economy matters too, as does treatment for those with cancer, heart disease, diabetes, etc as the media have whipped Corona into such a frenzy it's hard for them to now come down from it and provide a more measured and rational view.

@Theluggage15 @Amboseli

Echoing completely.

Although on another thread I said I didn't agree with saving covid lives at any cost and got...

What an absolutely awful person you really are. I was right to judge you from the off.

Definitely not engaging with you again. Your opinion' is a disgrace.

Direct quote from a single post.

Someone likened it to being like a religion and I think I agree. It doesn't matter what you say, you are wrong to them and therefore awful / disgraceful / disgusting / stupid / selfish / ignorant

I'm am trying to console myself with the knowledge that this whole thing is being based on public opinion... and the tide of public opinion will turn. It's only a matter of time really.

You're absolutely right Theluggage15.

It's been the way for some time now that we should all live until we've reach incredibly old age, regardless of the quality of life.

It's taboo to suggest that life at any cost is not necessarily desirable, but now that seems to have transferred to this virus; no one must be allowed to die from it?

But suddenly it's okay for other life saving treatments and mental health services to be withheld.

Are we going to be seeing figures every night of those that have felt they can no longer go on with no support for their MH problems? I very much doubt it. Are we going to be given the number of deaths every night for those who have died because their treatment for other treatable illnesses have been withheld? Again, I doubt it.

You're right, it is almost like a religion.

Do you know what I am going to say it.

I care about people with covid or who have lost their lives due to catching it. And their relatives. I care about the NHS.

But I also equally care about the people suffering and dying, who don't have covid. Those people, who will get treatment to late. Those people who will lose weeks or months of their life because treatment came late. Or those that will die, who would have survived a year ago, because they arent getting early treatment.

If you view the second group as acceptable losses, shrug your shoulders and say 'well people will lose out as long as its not those with covid', you need to be the one that really looks at your thinking. Its unbelievably callous.

@SnydeValley, I wasn't on that thread but am not surprised at the comments you got.

@pigsDOfly, also agree that we have somehow been brainwashed into thinking that we must all try and live for as long as possible, no matter how poor the quality of life, and ideally avoid death totally!

And now the worst possible death is to die of covid.

People dying of cancer because they're not being treated due to the NHS being reconfigured to only treat Corona cases don't seem to matter anymore.

The media created a cult/religion out of brexit and are now doing it again with Corona.

Wtf cantata? Outright censorship

@Amboseli I was actually just musing while I was cleaning my bathroom on how this is all very reminiscent of Brexit.

The slogans. The soundbites. The namecalling. The lack of facts. The interpretation of figures. The "well if you listen to the scientists / economics" like all scientists and economists are one hive-mind, when really it's always based on predictions.

Basically split right down the middle with two extremes and each side just trying to shout louder than the other.

Both sides unwilling to admit that in a lot of cases their own personal circumstances and the direct effect on them clouds their opinions on the matter (and in this case, I am fully admitting my personal circumstances are forming part of my opinion i.e I would not be coming out of lockdown personally if my children were at risk of dying).

It's sad that it always seems to end up like this.

Yes, just like a religion

thegermanyeye.com/flu-vaccination-penultimate-wave-was-deadliest-in-30-years-3748?fbclid=IwAR3X0cmWfnaecSupqcPEl6iAIwAAqzpRToHhS1J4GWkA5FOYoKcO10FjhK0

Incidentally 25,000 died from a virulent flu epidemic in Germany in 2017/2018. No lockdown, no whipping up of disproportionate fear.

It’s like some mass brainwashing has gone on where suddenly the only people that matter are the ones with the virus

Not even them, the whole exercise is to prevent pictures of the NHS being overwhelmed appearing on our TV screens.

Cantata - I have just asked about the post deletion of the petition link on site stuff. Wonder if a reply will be forthcoming

@SnydeValley yes I saw an article that said the politicians were shocked that the scientists argued with each other in meetings. Seriously? That’s what scientists do. With this virus it’s all just guesswork anyway as it’s so new.
The whole we’re just going to shut down for a few weeks to get things under control in the NHS seems to have morphed into we’re going to to control your lives, stop educating youngsters properly, tell you how and when you can work, tell you where you can go and with how many people etc etc with no discussion and in the vain hope of a vaccine appearing God knows when. I just don’t see how that’s sustainable once people assess their own risk and realise that there’s more to life than sitting at home and that’s if they haven’t lost their home of course.

Isn't it more about keeping transmission rates below exponential to protect health systems? There obviously have to be tradeoffs, like kids returning to school at some point, and businesses going back, because of course people become ill and die of many things and risk is part of life....Clearly, lots more people are going to get covid either way.

However, if trades aren't made at a rate of R = 1 or below in terms of transmission, you are looking at health system collapse. And that doens't leave much flexibility.

Below exponential growth means R below 1

Below exponential is R less than or equal to 1.

@LimitIsUp I will be interested to hear what their reply is. I exchanged several emails with HQ last night. I was very polite, as were they. However, it is clear, straightforward censorship at work.

Synde, oh yes, it's like Brexit (round two. ) Only much deadlier sadly.
People don't care and doing what they want now though.

I have had an email from them saying hopefully you have received our email explaining why your post was removed (I haven't), but as far as I can tell (as advised by another poster), it is not acceptable to post a petition in a thread and you have to post it under the petitions topic (where it will never be seen)

Have just started a thread in the Petitions topic. Battening down the the hatches and preparing for a rocky ride (however it might just fall out of active conversations never to be seen again)

Thanks for that, Limit. HQ never mentioned that to me!!

The current health system couldn’t cope with the extra illness and deaths due to covid 19. Have people paid attention to the annual stories about the winter flue crises? It’s like that but much worse.

The issue is our nhs has been run thin, so it didn’t have the capacity and extreme measures were taken. And now we face a high cost - not just economic - as a result.

If the government had properly invested in the NHS, if it had listened to previous reports saying we were unprepared for a pandemic, if it done enough to sustain nurse numbers, doctor numbers, the social care system then we wouldn’t be in quite the same mess.

I strongly believe that.

It would have been cheaper to raise taxes and targeted taxes (eg at wealth instead of income) than to pay the price we are going to be paying now.

Thanks for popping onto it Cantata. I think it might get brutal in there . I may step away and not get drawn in, but I hope that some lockdown sceptics will see it and sign

We will have to learn to live with the virus. It won’t go away for a long time. But things will get better, lockdown will lift and things will start to get going again.

My pleasure, Limit. I am hoping enough people comment (even if negatively) to keep it in active conversations. I wouldn't have known about it if you hadn't linked to it, and there are bound to be others who don't know about it either.