I can’t see an end to this.. 😔

[Mummypig2020]

God I’m really struggling the past few days.

I just want to see some light at the end of the tunnel. It just feels like constant negative news and nothing about the near future.

It makes me so sad. How are other countries starting to go “back to normal”? But we aren’t?

It's not a human rights issue if it's protecting our right to life.

What about my partners right to life?

Before Christmas he wa stold he must have scans every 4 weeks to lontior a potentially fatal problem. He has now missed 2.

The first we will know the problem is out of hand is if he drops dead.

So, at the moment he doesn't have a right to life.

And no, sorry I don't like removing some peoples human rights because of 'right to life.

That is making a society where the vulnerable are very 'othered'. That in itself will lead to deaths.

Sorry meant to add 'right to life' has already been removed.

And what about the vulenebale who are already at risk.

Like my mum. My dad works in the NHS.

How do you prose locking her away, is protecting her?

Shit I can’t believe they out your dh, and people like him, in such an appalling position, then proudly bang on about the Nightingale.

Robin I’m glad you don’t want to restrict the rights of the vulnerable.

It’s a label that’s increasingly worrying. It gets overused on MN generally but now the government are so keen to remove rights, it’s a serious issue.

princess

Absolutely not. But I don't think they've tried the pandemic. Can you imagine the mental toll? I can't even begin to go into it, I did it on another thread already. Suffice to say there are countries in the world who haven't bothered locking down because they can't meet the medical demands that are coming regarding of how much they flatten the peak. Can you imagine the mental anguish of massive numbers of people requiring ventilators and not having them- for the patients, their HCP (who would quickly start filling the beds), their families who rely on them for childcare and a living wage... Can you think how quickly funding would be ripped from other desperately important projects (like mental health), how unsafe it would be to have chemo, how businesses would struggle with a depleted work force.... That's the UK without lockdown.

I care deeply about the people harmed by lockdown but I think they have more chance of getting help this way.

Can you think how quickly funding would be ripped from other desperately important projects (like mental health), how unsafe it would be to have chemo, how businesses would struggle with a depleted work force.... That's the UK without lockdown.

Those resources have already been stripped right back or gone in alot of cases.

What 09 has described is what’s happening, minus higher deaths from Covid.

If London has passed peak, the science was scaremongering but of course Ferguson, in particular, has form for that.

How are other countries starting to go “back to normal”? But we aren’t?
Because have an inept leader who reacts to everything too bloody late and hangs around waiting to see what everyone else does instead of making decisions.

Why do people turn this into choosing whether we should save/help/benefit people with covid or without? Those wanting a longer lockdown claim it's to save lives of people with covid. Where's that happening? Deaths outside hospitals are estimated to be at around 15,00. We have nearly 3,000 critical care beds standing empty in hospitals and every single Nightingale is almost, if not completely empty. Tell the families of those 15,000 people that 'lockdown saves lives' and see if they believe you.

But we have to keep lockdown going to 'protect the NHS' so that we can cope with the second wave. Get real. It doesn't matter about the beds being available. We don't have the staff to care for those numbers. Yes, I know about the recruitment drive but do you honestly think nursing staff can be recruited and trained before the end of the year? Do we have enough oxygen to move to early intervention and actually save lives? I've seen enough to suggest that it's very unlikely. And do we have the equipment to actually give oxygen? We've got a government that can't even provide enough gloves to go round.

People are going to continue to die from the virus. People are also going to die and (possibly more importantly) suffer for years because of a lengthy lockdown. I'm not even going to respond to people saying everyone must stay in lockdown until there's a vaccine or a treatment because that's just pathetic. If you're high risk, it's your responsibility to keep yourself safe. With the majority of people out of lockdown and back at work, then providing financial support for those who continue to shield should be possible. No, you probably won't get your full salary but you've all told the rest of us that your lives, and those of your loved ones are worth more than any amount of money, so that won't worry you.

Stay home, stay safe. And let the rest of us take our chances with dying by getting out and living our lives rather than just existing.

@LilacTree1 Ferguson, in particular, has form for that

Doesn't he just.

What's your point shit? That the rest can go too?

+ @LilacTree1* Ferguson, in particular, has form for that

Doesn't he just.*

A very good friend of mine who is sadly no longer with us used to work with him. His take on him was, it was always his way or no way, he was never wrong and he never responded positively to being questioned. Not a very good combination if you ask me.

On the one occasion that I met this individual (not in a professional setting), I would certainly concur with what my friend described.

What's your pointshit? That the rest can go too?

No, you are saying if we don't prioritise covid the rest will go. They are already gone, for the majority of people.

You brought up the right to life, being more important than human rights.

Yet, there's thousands of people having medical support cut off. What about their right to life?

Why is right to life against covid, more important that human rights? That important, you think its OK to block vulernable people from society? But right to life from any other issue, isnt important?

Those services you mention that we will lose if we dont have lockdown, have gone. We are locked down. They are still gone.

How can you fear losing something that's already gone?

Shits The Govt is limiting CV and other hospital admissions to avoid the scenes we saw in Italy/Spain where hospitals were over run with patients.
Deaths can be hidden (care homes, nhs workers) or explained (we aren't as bad as many other countries) away but TV images of people dying in car parks and corridors cannot.

The political message, when this is over, will be We coped, We saved the NHS and the excess deaths will be ignored by a compliant media.

The political message, when this is over, will be We coped, We saved the NHS and the excess deaths will be ignored by a compliant media.

It absolutely will. As will the deaths that are a result of the economy, being in the toilet.

I just can't get my head round, people willing sacrificing other people, as long as its not to covid.

And you are right, its so it looks good in the media. The lockdown was for optics too.

If my dp drops dead, he won't make the news. The fact that he can't have his scan, won't matter. No one will be told to remember us, his family. No one will talk about how devastating it must be, for the ones who's loved ones have died from something preventable. Or that only handful, were able to go to their funeral.

Our local hospital is nearly empty. Covid is being deal with at the main hospital about 8 miles away. My Dad works there. They have lots of beds in their covid ward.

Yet its seen as better to have our local hospital empty risking lives, all for optics.

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No one is sacrificing others to prevent covid deaths.

The aim is to minimise all excess deaths..those directly from the virus and those indirectly caused by the virus. The whole bleeping idea behind lockdown is to help the NHS keep functioning. A broken NHS will fix nobody. It's seems that lockdown was too late which is why some of those other deaths have occurred, because the NHS has had to strip back harder than we would all have liked due to the influx of virus patients

Unless you expect virus patients to be dumped direct to the mortuary if they get symptoms so bad they need hospitalisation ?

@jasjas1973 that is exactly what i think unfortunately. The hosptials have/had much more capacity to take more patients it appears ( possibly non covid as well) they keep no.s low it appears so they would not look bad, this has lead to more deaths - for sur covid and probably other deaths as well as strongly hinted bu the ons.

No one is sacrificing others to prevent covid deaths.

Yes they are. People are not getting treatment and medical support.

It has to be expected, that even if the NHS survives, there will be people that treatment and medical help has come too late. People have already died.

Those peoples medical care has been sacrificed. Whether you agree its the right thing to do or not, you can not deny that's happening.

Unless you expect virus patients to be dumped direct to the mortuary if they get symptoms so bad they need hospitalisation ?

Hang on, so you are saying that by wanting people to receive their needed medical treatment, you must think covid patients should be ignored?

So you think those of us concerned about non covid deaths, would rather sacrifice those people instead of people with non covid illness?

Whilst denying that others medical needs are being ignored, in favour of covid?

That doesn't make sense.

You are saying to provide care for people with non covid medical needs we would need to ignore covid patients?

But we arent ignoring non covid people, to treat covid patients?

@Shitsgettingcrazy you are absolutely spot on.

@LimitIsUp I see HQ has also deleted your post on this thread with the link to the petition...

No one is sacrificing others to prevent covid deaths

Yes they are, my cousin, for example, used to have a 3 month check up to make sure her recent cancer treatment has worked, she has been told it has been postponed indefinitely, should it return, she won't know and may die due to delayed treatment.

Hancock says 3000 plus critical care beds going spare, Nightingale hospitals are empty.
CV patients told to self treat at home unless you are the PM.

The whole thing is a political exercise to make our NHS look like it has coped, Johnson can then say We did well, better than Europe (plus some weak excuse about Germany)

Saving lives is not the end game.

There is a shortage of more than just beds. All resources are in short supply because lockdown was to late which means that they are treating people in some kind of priority system. Which is then about minimising total death rates, so some people will lose out. Minimising death rates does not necessarily mean automatically prioritising one illness over but it may sometimes be the right thing to do. Note the word is minimising, they have clearly failed to in avoiding all preventable deaths already

Do you want to just chuck serious covid cases direct into a morgue ? What positive suggestion do you have!

Do you want to just chuck serious covid cases direct into a morgue ? What positive suggestion do you have!

Again with the moral grandstanding. Being more worried about Covid, doesn't make you morally superior. Did I say covid patient's don't matter?

As you say, people will lose out. To use your words, are you just want to throw these people in the morgue?

The problem is, that it only seems to matter if it will be covid patients that lose out.

There's lots they can do. As I said my nearest hospital where dp has his scans is empty. They aren't and won't be treating covid there. It's the hospital where they will be fitting his hearing aid. They have no clue when either scan or his hearing aid will be fitted.

The hearing aid is fine. He only has 50% hearing in one ear, none in the other. The one with 50% will get progressively worse and the hearing aid was meant to slow that. Its not life or death. But his failing hearing is causing him depression. But its fine. The staff I have spoken to there have confirmed there's no one there. Yet the staff and consultants are. Dp could go, either have his temperature checked or not come in contact with anyone and have his consultation over the phone. But nope. Not happening.

They need to start balancing covid with other care. Because the overall death rate won't come down. Deaths due to cancer for example will go up.

You may be comfortable with peolle dying as long as the official covid death figure is down, but I am not. There needs to be a balance

We need to rely on actual legitimate data and not hypothetical models.