Worried About Coronavirus- thread 38

[TheStarryNight]

New thread

I just posted on another thread about how I've been saying all along, from the end of January, how it would be the poor in cities, London in particular, who would be most affected. They were sitting ducks. The protection was there for the few, not the many. Police turning two or three people away from Cornwall yet hundreds of thousands of people continued to arrive at airports with no checks or quarantine, including daily flights from Wuhan after the crisis there was known. It's worth noting the million plus pensioners in London are more likely to be in poverty than those anywhere else in the UK.

The poor (and the not so poor) in cities like London are crammed into high density bad quality often shared housing. Many thousands of families live in one room with no access to proper cooking facilities. Those reliant on food banks have little opportunity for fresh healthy food. They're forced to go to their (low paid) jobs on crowded public transport. Poverty is a major cause of obesity and ill health - physical and mental.

To make matters worse, the conditions with the highest Covid mortality rates weren't included on the shielding list. These conditions - including type 2 diabetes and hypertension, are often known as diseases of poverty. These people are the most vulnerable of all. Highest risks from Covid yet denied the protection of the shielding list. It's gulling particularly considering it's possible some on the shielding list are actually at lower risk. Immunosuppressants are amongst the trial drugs. It looks like people taking these drugs might have a slightly increased risk of catching Covid but they're more protected against progressing to a serious stage.

the right wing hawks, in particular, seem to have discovered a new concern about the abuse, exclusion and poor conditions that are the reality of many people's home lives - and see involving it as a reason to end lockdown
Yes. I've seen it here. They conveniently ignore the fact it is those very people they suddenly profess such concern about who will suffer (and die) the most if we have a premature end to lockdown. Likewise they ignore or dismiss any alternative solutions to help those struggling in lockdown. Putting abuse victims in the empty hotels and holiday homes (many owners have been given £10,000 by the taxpayer), providing online support for abuse victims and people struggling with mental health, continuing MH home visits (giving PPE to the visiting HCP), ensuring full rent amounts can be met from UC and housing benefit, plans for post pandemic council house building, spreading the economy out of London more evenly across the UK, which would resolve both regional unemployment and the city housing crisis. If they really were concerned that's how to help the poor and vulnerable without killing them off via premature end to lockdown.

Telegraph article: Armed US protesters enter Michigan capitol to demand coronavirus lockdown end

By Agence France-Presse
1 MAY 2020 • 6:30AM

Demonstrators, including some carrying guns, entered the capitol building in the US state of Michigan on Thursday and demanded the Democratic governor lift strict coronavirus lockdown orders, as some lawmakers reportedly donned bulletproof vests.

Dozens of demonstrators crowded the lobby of the building in Lansing, where they demanded to be allowed inside the House Chamber.

State police, wearing masks, blocked them from entering. None of the protesters appeared to be wearing masks.

"Directly above me, men with rifles yelling at us," tweeted Senator Dayna Polehanki along with a photo showing four men, at least one of whom appeared to be carrying a weapon.

"Some of my colleagues who own bullet proof vests are wearing them. I have never appreciated our Sergeants-at-Arms more than today," she continued.

More protesters could be seen outside carrying signs, including one depicting Governor Gretchen Whitmer as Adolf Hitler.

The demonstration, dubbed the American Patriot Rally, was organised by a group calling itself Michigan United for Liberty.

"We do not agree with or consent to our unalienable rights being restricted or rescinded for any reason, including the Covid-19 pandemic," the group said on its private Facebook page, where it has more than 8,800 members.

"We believe that every American and every Michigander has the right to work to support our families, to travel freely, to gather for religious worship and for other purposes, to gather in protest of our government and to direct our own medical care."

The protest comes a day after a Michigan court ruled that stay-at-home directives issued by Whitmer on March 24 do not infringe on residents’ constitutional rights, according to local media reports.

It was the second time this month that protesters have demanded Whitmer lift lockdown restrictions in the state, which has seen more than 3,500 people killed by the coronavirus, according to a tally by Johns Hopkins University.

On April 16 around 3,000 protesters, some of them also armed, descended on Lansing for "Operation Gridlock," causing a massive traffic jam around the capital building.

A day later Mr Trump appeared to lend his support to them and scattered protests elsewhere, tweeting "LIBERATE MICHIGAN!"

Whitmer, whose name has emerged as a potential running mate for presumptive Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden, shrugged those protests off, telling CNN it was "OK to be angry."

"I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again – Michigan is an extraordinary place to live because of the people who call it home. There are millions of Michiganders doing their part to slow the spread of Covid-19 every single day. We are going to get through this together," she tweeted later Thursday, without commenting directly on the protests.

Despite the demonstrations, Whitmer’s handling of the virus crisis has been met with a generally favorable response.

@MurrayTheMonk
I agree with you, it’s a total disgrace.

He knew, they all knew about care homes, the pay for carers the conditions.
I’d go as far to say also that the care homes in private hands knew about the conditions but chose to keep counting their millions. They chose to ignore and carry on with the status quo, private and council run.

I really do hope their is change coming and wish you and your staff all the very best.

Thankyou Coq-I dont think anything will realistically change after this. We will have years of sodding austerity I would think...
But at least more people recognise that social care has been criminally ignored all this time. I think lots of people didn't even realise what it was and what we do-they just lumped us in mentally with the NHS and assumed we get similar pay and 'perks' (such as they are which is not many). Penny is finally dropping with people that we don't even get that, and the person looking after your Gran is on £2.50 ph less than the person who stacks your shelves in Asda 🤷🏽‍♀️. (Who is also doing a great job, don't get me wrong).

I do, my MIL was in a care home for going on 3yrs. Privately funded by her.
We got to know a few of her own personal carers very well, knew their wage knew how they were overworked. One nurse in her floor, no night cover only emergencies.
Her carers were fantastic, we would give them gifts for birthdays and cash at Christmas time.
They would go above and beyond for her, she really felt safe with them.
Her care home has had 22 deaths due to Covid19.
You seem like one of them.

@ToffeeYoghurt I agree it is like ethnic cleansing for certain groups or cultures while culling the elderly.
Survival of the fittest like you mention the poor man illnesses will ensure this too.

So many shocking things. I am starting to despair. Murray i really hope fhings change, but fear you maybe right.

Toffee your post is interesting. However do you think London has some benefit from a younger population? Albeit not from a lower multi-ethic one (not homogenous as vast socio economic spread here too).

Also It's worth noting the million plus pensioners in London are more likely to be in poverty than those anywhere else in the UK.

Is this proportionally true? It may well be I’d be interested to see more on it.

ASCP launches COVID or Compliance Campaign

In the next 8 weeks, there'll be 700k regulatory gas safety checks due resulting in up to 2 million unnecessary social interactions

Interestingly, local GP surgeries where I live have taken to Facebook to say that although the peak may have passed for the country as a whole, numbers are still rising locally and that staying home is more important than ever.

My gas check is due this month. They've usually contacted me by now. I won't be letting anyone into the house. Two of them cone and it takes about half an hour. I've been in my nice clean bubble for 7 weeks and feel safe. No one is going to threaten that.

Keeping in mind there are efforts for an all Ireland covid-19 policy, the Irish timetable for reopening is interesting.

Outdoor work, such as construction - May 18

Retailers like garden centres and hardware stores - May 18.
Outdoor meetings in groups of four people - May 18.

Small retailers with social - June 8
Work with low levels of interaction - June 8

Restaurants where social distancing possible - June 29.

Hotels, minus hotel bars - July 20.

Pubs and nightclubs - Aug 10
Full return to work - Aug 10
Tourist travel to offshore islands - Aug 10

Schools and universities - September

With room to reverse if there is a relapse.

Northern Ireland isn't as badly affected as England so NI may reopen earlier than England. There have been mixed comments about this with the Welsh saying they want an all UK timetable but Arlene Foster (yes really) was leaning towards the all Ireland approach.

It would be fucking stupid difficult to manage separate NI / Ireland strategies and would purely about UK petty politics to prove we are independent, so I hope common sense does prevail.

Its interesting that the Irish are doing schools last, with full return to work BEFORE them though.

@RedToothBrush I just read your post on the BAME statistics. It will be interesting to see the effect Ramadan has on the numbers for this group. The decrease in vitamin intake through fasting during the month will no doubt exasperate the Vitamin D deficit that some speculate to have an effect on COVID19 susceptibility. Also will family gatherings of different households happen in secret leading to infection from unknowing carriers.

Marsha Someone posted an Age UK link on another thread a couple of weeks ago. I can't be bothered to search for it now (sorry, it's been a long day). I'll have a look tomorrow unless someone else finds it.

Although there are a lot of young people in London, the sheer numbers of people in total means there are still more older, poorer, disabled, and ill people there than anywhere else. And quite a lot of the affluent young left london before lockdown. A few went to second homes, lots more went back to their families across the UK.

Murray - I would like to do something for the wonderful carers looking after my older relative through all this - in your experience what sort of thing could I have delivered that would genuinely be appreciated? I don't think flowers or chocolates are really the thing there? I'm a bit crap at this sort of thing!

@redtoothbrush I think Ireland are like a lot of places and schools end for the holidays end of June (from remembering what a close Irish friend said) so by the time restaurants open Schools are as well

Its what complicates matters in the England and Wales - in my county schools end 22nd July so its a very long time. If we followed Italy/Spain/US/Eire in this it would be a lot easier just to say September

Gas inspections seem unnecessary till somewhere explodes I guess. We have had to have engineers in to do urgent repairs during lockdown, and they are likely to be coming back, it was a bit stressful but it can't be helped.

Gas safety checks were introduced because of deaths from carbon monoxide poisoning. It's wrong if the staff are turning up without PPE though. They're more at risk than the tenants in fact since the tenants can usually go in another room during the work and wipe or spray everything after. However, perhaps tenants especially those who are vulnerable or who have health anxiety shouldn't feel forced under the circumstances. They should be asked to sign a disclaimer of some sorts declaring they're making an informed choice of taking the risk. Otherwise the landlord faces legal action if anything goes wrong.

Whynotme-chocolates/cakes etc are always appreciated! Or else-carers hands get very dry-even in normal times-all the washing-so we go through hand cream by the gallon-nice ones make a great present for a carer

From the evidence do we think children transmit to adults?

Several studies from different places seem to suggest that children are far less likely to catch it than adults. These studies have been small in size but there's a growing number of them so it's hard to dismiss their findings as pointing to children getting it less.

It terms of children who do get it, passing it to adults, I'm not sure there is as much evidence. The problem being several of the studies have been so small they haven't had enough children catching it to demonstrate transmission from child to adult.

But the former is linked to the latter: if children can't catch it as easily children can't be as big a vector for transmission as adults.

The problem is small children aren't unaccompanied by adults. Every child needs an adult to take them to school. And that is your risk - adult to adult transmission due to the role of children. Getting in and out of school grounds in large numbers and the inevitable school gate rabbiting.

Re gas safety inspections, I wonder if a way around this would be to send those with an inspection due a carbon monoxide detector in the short term until the check can be carried out.

RTB I agree with the adult interaction at schools spreading it but I also thought a number of studies have shown children do catch it it’s just they are asymptotic or very mild symptoms so it’s not as obvious they have it. If a child does have it I can’t see why they wouldn’t then pass it on to their families, and with potential for multiple asymptotic cases in a classroom that could be worrying for teachers/TAs/nursery workers being in the same indoor space as them for prolonged time without PPE.